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      • 70. Re: Lets join together to come up with a compromise for sniping
        rlbl

        I appreciate what you say... but I do not like quickscoping (it is not really quickscoping that I do not like) because you win gunfights you were losing (unbalanced)

         

        Illustration of what bothers me:

         

        Person A and person B have equal "skill". They both can quickscope and they both have good accuracy win a gun

         

        1: Person A and Person B are both using the same AR (or similar) in CQC situation

         

        Persona A sees Person B 1st

        Person A shoots Person B 1st

        Person B gets damaged and spins around to fire back, and gets a shot off 100% on target

        Result: Person A does get damage, but person A wins the gun fight (as one would expect)

         

        2: Person A decides to use a sniper rifle or a shotgun in the same CQC situation

        Person A sees Person B 1st

        Person A shoots Person B 1st

        Person B gets damaged and spins around to fire back, and gets a shot off 100% on target

        Result: Person A dies because Person B was using a OHK gun

         

        Here, we are in CQC situation so one can expect that a shotgun could win (although some may still call BS). However, this is CQC and the sniper wins?  That is not balanced when a gun can dominate at any range, in any situation.

         

        If the Person with the sniper sees the enemy 1st, then fine.  But in the reverse situation it is not balanced and it drives people to use SMGs, Shotguns and Snipers only on small maps... which is what happened in BO2 (and many maps in MW3).

         

        That is the problem I have with it.  Getting killed by a Quickscope is not an issue for me.  Losing games/gunfights I should have one is a problem for me.

        • 71. Re: Lets join together to come up with a compromise for sniping
          Tygrastic1

          Foxhound-Pro wrote:

           

           

          Regarding user error: This has ultimately been my exact point. We all know, or should know, that user error is going to get you killed in this game and more so with a weapon of finesse. Every time I suggest that the ROF could be slower, however, it is stated that it is "too slow" to begin with. It can never be "too slow" unless one is consistently maxing the ROF. If that's impossible, then the user is simply unable to manually burst their weapon fast enough to compete with other weapons in a variety of encounters. The MRs are great for roaming, but their strength has definitely been quickly eliminating unsuspecting enemies similar to a posted SR.

           

          MK14 recoil has always been fine for me at most ranges. I actually dislike the MR28. My love for the MK14 goes way back, but it's no G3.


          I personally feel that the 

           

          *If I need to move this to the other thread, I can.  I don't want to highjack this one.*

           

          Alright, I think I am following you now.  It would be safe to say, that inherently, they (MRs) were really designed at a disadvantage (perhaps not on purpose) in comparison to the AR and/or SR (rather than "bridging" the gap)?  This is can be inferred since in a perfect world they are equal on paper- at least in terms of the AR.  User error will obviously have more of an impact on the MRs, as we both agree.  I would much rather be rewarded for my finese rather than punished for the lack of it.

           

          Now, I am not saying that someone who doesn't take the time to acquire the skills should be able to "own" with the MR class.  There needs to be some form of risk/reward for using this kind of weapon, those that take the time to learn it should be able to be at some level, at an advantage (albeit, a small one).  I am also not saying that this needs to be a viable choice on a map such as strikezone, just as a shotgun isn't a viable option on a map such as stonehaven.  I know my loadout choice has more to do with the map I play than almost anything else.

           

          I went home and played with the MK14 again last night and had a great time.  It would kill as expected, although there were some instances that it was taking 4 hits to drop someone which was probably connection more than anything else.  I definately lost quite a few battles I would have won if I had my Honey Badger out (follows the punish rather than reward for finese since finese equates equality between the weapons).  Is the range dropoff for adding a silencer to a MR greater than or equal to adding a silencer to an AR?  With a single shot, silenced MK14, I don't think I should be losing a battle to someone with a silenced AK-12 in whiteout (ridge above the downed helo to the first boathouse building, as long a range as any map).

          • 72. Re: Lets join together to come up with a compromise for sniping
            iivrruummii

            How does human error vs human perfection contribute to imbalance?

             

            If a sniper kills you while you shoot 15 bullets and hit 3, how is it that the sniper is unbalanced?

            • 73. Re: Lets join together to come up with a compromise for sniping
              Foxhound-Pro

              iivrruummii wrote:

               

              I really just think these (anti-quickscope) people are just haters.  Haters of the people that do it and haters because they get their but handed to them by one and cry because they think they are the best yet a sniper comes along and give them a butt whooping.

               

              I personally dislike it. I don't think of myself as a "hater" or view my opinions as "crying." My personal win/loss statistic certainly shows that I don't lose often, but when I play I do find QS as a playstyle both undermining of balance and a bit ridiculous in execution. If it stays, then I don't ultimately mind, but I do personally believe that Sniper Rifles as a whole should be phased out. Hence my participation on this thread and the sharing of my opinions.

               

              The above, iivrruummii, will only serve as a catalyst in many instances to turn a thread sour. That is what begins the path of name calling, stat boasting and the ultimate flexing of egos.

              • 74. Re: Lets join together to come up with a compromise for sniping
                nicedrewishfela

                I agree 100% with this statement, Fox.

                 

                I don't use Snipers a lot... just never been my thing. But played Stonehaven today and picked a few up (imagine that!).

                 

                They are ridiculously easy to use and The aim seems to do a lot of the work for you. Got into a bad situation along the creek bed where I had switched to the Sniper with Thermal I had picked up while playing Core TDM. Enemy soldier came running at me and peppered me with shots from an AR (not sure what he was using). I barely had to look, pull up the sniper and pull the trigger and got the one shot kill. I deserved to lose that exchange. Sure, the enemy may have just had bad aim... but with the sniper rifle I didn't even have to, it just snapped on target.

                • 75. Re: Lets join together to come up with a compromise for sniping

                  nicedrewishfela wrote:

                   

                  I agree 100% with this statement, Fox.

                   

                  I don't use Snipers a lot... just never been my thing. But played Stonehaven today and picked a few up (imagine that!).

                   

                  They are ridiculously easy to use and The aim seems to do a lot of the work for you. Got into a bad situation along the creek bed where I had switched to the Sniper with Thermal I had picked up while playing Core TDM. Enemy soldier came running at me and peppered me with shots from an AR (not sure what he was using). I barely had to look, pull up the sniper and pull the trigger and got the one shot kill. I deserved to lose that exchange. Sure, the enemy may have just had bad aim... but with the sniper rifle I didn't even have to, it just snapped on target.

                  No you really cannot say that though...just because you got a nice shot in here and there does not mean it is totally easy to use. Like I said, the majority of players do not use a sniper well. They will get nice shots every now and then, but on average, they will die with it, their K/D will be crap with it. How many people do you see have it as a preferred weapon? Yet almost always you see some kind of AR, usually honeybadger, AK12, or Remington. And you know why? Because those guns are overall much more consistent in kills, much easier to use, and way more flexible in short to long range killing.

                   

                  You can chalk it up to playing style, but the fact is that most people don't excel with the sniper. If it was as easy and OP as people like to say, you would see way more people using it, outside of maps like stonehaven. But the answer is no, you don't see people sniping very often in other maps.

                   

                  Go ahead, I know it's not your 'style', but why don't you snipe for a week and see how well you do with it. If it's as easy as you say, getting 20+ kills in a game, regardless of the map, shouldn't be too hard, right?

                   

                  At the end of the day, it takes a lot of skills to kill with a sniper rifle. If you can consistently get 20+ kills in games with it, you are good. But most people aren't.

                  • 76. Re: Lets join together to come up with a compromise for sniping
                    iivrruummii

                    It does take more skill to play OBJ gamemodes with a sniper than an SMG or AR, hands down.  I don't understand why people are wanting to make them any harder.  Why don't we just make the SMGs hipfire only and the ARs ADS only while we are at it because if anything they deserve "nerfing" more than anything else.

                    • 77. Re: Lets join together to come up with a compromise for sniping

                      iivrruummii wrote:

                       

                      It does take more skill to play OBJ gamemodes with a sniper than an SMG or AR, hands down.  I don't understand why people are wanting to make them any harder.  Why don't we just make the SMGs hipfire only and the ARs ADS only while we are at it because if anything they deserve "nerfing" more than anything else.

                      Not to mention most of the time, you're dead if you run into 2 or more players. With an SMG, or an AR, you actually have a decent chance of surviving.

                      • 78. Re: Lets join together to come up with a compromise for sniping
                        nicedrewishfela

                        I don't disagree, honestly.

                         

                        My point was more that they shouldn't do the work for you in situations like that.

                         

                        The skill with the Sniper comes more from how you move around the board or position yourself. I don't think anyone can make an argument that it is hard to get shots on an enemy with them. My problem has never been with using the sniper, I just don't have the patience for that play style. I have long said the best snipers are the ones who know how to position themselves for the kill.

                        • 79. Re: Lets join together to come up with a compromise for sniping

                          I see. Well honestly, they can't get rid of aim assist, not for console games. You may be right, it shouldn't do it for you, but I don't believe it is such a strong aim assist all the time, otherwise, so many people will be using it, and excelling. And then I would have to complain with you, because I like to believe that it takes skills to use a sniper and not your average joe can dominate with it.

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