CoD sometimes seems unfair from another perspective

Black Ops forum

@Dat, you make a good point but let's take it a step farther. Why should a struggling family just getting by have to pay for the healthcare of a family of lazy deadbeats?
godsmack_theori
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Posts: 2625
Registered: ‎21-09-2011

godsmack(the original) wrote:

 

@Dat, you make a good point but let's take it a step farther. Why should a struggling family just getting by have to pay for the healthcare of a family of lazy deadbeats?





Exactly! A hard working family that is struggling should not have to pay for a lazy family who has no ambition to get a job. I understand paying for family were the dad broke his leg and cant work for a weeks, but a problem is that people take advantage of it and sit on wellfare for thier whole life.
dat4co
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Posts: 164
Registered: ‎01-07-2011
Wait wait wait .... Who said people who are "lazy" automatically get a welfare check?? Those types of things are given to those people who need them, not to anyone who doesn't feel like they want to work. Of course, there are people who take advantage of the system, and lie, but that is where more enforcement is needed.



I will use your example of why should the struggling family that is just getting by have to pay for someone else's healthcare. What about when that same family needs healthcare, and cant afford to get it?? I thank god I live in a country where, if I break my leg, I know I am able to go to the hospital and have it taken care of without worrying if I have $10,000 to pay for it. I am glad I live in a country where if I am diagnosed with cancer, it wont have to sell my house, and and everything I have, just to hope I can get enough money for treatment. You are making it sound like you would have to give up half of your earnings to get these thing. Well, let me tell you, I pay 15% sales tax where I live. 7% of that goes towards my health care. That is a small price to pay if the time ever comes that I have a serious illness. Also, I can tell you that if I ever did have a serious illness, what I have paid in, would probably be a lot less than what I would have to pay to have the same treatment done in the U.S.



One point that you guys have overlooked, is the point I made that drugs and healthcare should not even cost what they do. There is no reason for a small group of people (corporate heads of the pharmaceutical companies), to be making billions of dollars of the pain and suffering of others.



Also, I would like to know why one man, such as Bill Gates, needs to have a 54 Billion dollar bank account... 25 Billion would not be enough?



I can only hope that if you guys are ever in the situation where you need extensive health care, that you have insurance that will cover it. Never mind the fact that I am sure you have paid out more in insurance premiums than I have paid in taxes. Or the fact that insurance companies work very hard to find reasons to deny a persons claim even though you have been paying them for many years.
kweagle
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Posts: 4802
Registered: ‎22-09-2011

dat4co wrote:

 

godsmack(the original) wrote:

 

@Dat, you make a good point but let's take it a step farther. Why should a struggling family just getting by have to pay for the healthcare of a family of lazy deadbeats?





Exactly! A hard working family that is struggling should not have to pay for a lazy family who has no ambition to get a job. I understand paying for family were the dad broke his leg and cant work for a weeks, but a problem is that people take advantage of it and sit on wellfare for thier whole life.



A study was done here in Finland some 10-15 years ago about welfare. It was the common belief that there would be a great number of people abusing the system (collecting the money while not being entitled for it). Instead the study found, that the number of abusers was miniscule (~5-10%) compared to those who were entitled to the welfare but didn't collect it.



If there are some people sitting on welfare their whole life, let them do it (the number of those is quite small). They wont get rich collecting the welfare and I'd rather have my meal in a restaurant prepared by someone that actually wants (in opposite of "needs") to keep his/her job.
pukama
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Posts: 1058
Registered: ‎21-09-2011
OK, well welfare in the states is take advantage of. People who illegally cross the border will hop on welfare and dont bother getting a job. I dont wanna pay for someone else's welfare when they came here illegally.



Also why do we need a say on how much money Bill Gates should have? He can get as much money as HE wants and no one should control that. Wanna know why Bill Gates has all this money? Because he worked hard in creating Microsoft. Socialism wont inspire any innovation or inventions because it makes it so your dependant on others. Why would you need to try to be ambitious in life if you already have everything provided to you by others?



Out of the 15 people richest people in the world, guess how many spots the U.S. hold in that category, 5! To list them, Bill gates, Warren Buffet, Lawrence Ellison, Christy Walton and Jim Walton. Guess how many spots Canada holds, ZERO! U.S. holds the most spots out of any other country because of its Capitalism. Right now in these tough times financialy, a Socialist government isnt good because families who can barely provide for themselves need to pay high taxes to provide for others. The richer you get in Socialist governments, the more taxes you pay. Why be innovative if you have to pay more the richer you get?



Also, like I said, it is alright if you have to be on welfare for a bit because of an injury/illness, that is what it was designed for.
dat4co
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Posts: 164
Registered: ‎01-07-2011
Kweagle, i will let you have the last say in this debate, but Im done debating about governments. It was a great debate, but at the rate we are going it will probably go forever. It is obvious your 100% supportive of a Socialist government. That is good though because the world wouldnt be as exciting if everyone had the same look/opinion on things. Kudos to you Kweagle!



Lol who ever knew I would argue about politics/government on a CoD forum. I doubled posted BTW
dat4co
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Posts: 164
Registered: ‎01-07-2011
PLAY BARBONES!!!!

No killstreaks, attachments and no perks. Perfect realism.

But they need to make HC BB (Hardcore Barebones).
natethesgt1
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Posts: 119
Registered: ‎05-04-2010
In relevance to the original post, I do kind of agree with you. I'd say for a lot of people that play CoD a lot, playing games is their way of having fun. I'm pretty sure having fun doesn't involve losing match after match being completely annihilated by the opposing team. Then again, this is where rage quitters come from and if the opposing team still hasn't left after you got your dogs for say the third time, they probably are enjoying the game as it is just by playing it. Most likely, they're the casual type.
Critical2hit1
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Posts: 512
Registered: ‎03-06-2010
And with that post, you have completely gone off track with the entire discussion. Illegal immigrants has nothing to do with people being on welfare. Maybe try tightening up your border patrol to solve that. Not only that but I would be willing to stake everything I own of the fact that there are many, many more american citizens that are collecting welfare, than illegal immigrants. That topic not only has no relevance, but refutes your own argument.



Its not about how much money someone is allowed to have, it is about them paying their share back to the economy as a whole. You make it sound as though only the rich are paying taxes, when in fact everyone pays taxes. It is based on a percentage and is only logical that the more you make, the higher your portion based on percentage.



"Socialism wont inspire any innovation or inventions because it makes it so your dependant on others" That has got to be one of the most ignorant statements I have ever hear, and if you believe that, you really need to take some history lessons. Where did all the innovations and inventions come from before capitalism was developed? It may be hard to believe, but not everyone in the world is driven by money.



You forgot to mention something in your "15 richest people in the world" argument. The fact that of those other 10 people that are not from the U.S., most are from socialist countries. Again, you have rebutted your own argument.



Your argument about this being a hard time for socialist countries is also a fail, as that is exactly what a socialist economy does, it helps the people who need it when times are tough, not taxing them more.



You were not doing to bad up until this post, but I have to say, your arguments all when to hell. I also notice you were not able to refute any of the statements I made in my previous post in relation to heath care.



And for the record, Canada is a capitalist society as well, and I do not pay any more in income tax than you do, but I still get free health care.
kweagle
Likes: 30
Posts: 4802
Registered: ‎22-09-2011
@Kweag, I do like the idea of everyone paying sales tax to pay for healthcare. In the US when the democrats want something new they just raise taxes on the rich, give a litttle extra to the minorities (as a bribe) and shove it down the throats of the rest of us. I have no first hand expeience with the canadian HC system so I won't show my ignorance by repeating what I have heard. The fact is that the US has a completely different HC system that is far more complex then the one in Canada, made more complex by the US government. I agree that pharma companies shouldn't be able to charge to much for drugs IF they had public funding to develope those drugs. If it were private funding then I think they should charge whatever the market place will allow.



As for Bill Gates, it shoudn't (and doesn't) matter how much money he has made(or makes) if you can put a cap on anyones pay then you can put a cap on everyones pay. Where do you draw the line? At least in America we realize that the rights are the individuals that are loaned to the government for the greater good. In a socialistic society the government has all the rights and loans them out to the people as they see fit. If I can't tell someone to get off their lazy buts and work then why should the government stiffle my rights to free enterprise through over regualtion and a stiffling tax system? As far as the worlds richest people I would like you to show me how many are from socialist countries. I submit to you that the bulk of the money made worldwide is made through capitalism.



@Pukama, while those figures that you provided make alot of sense in Finland. I doubt that they hold true world wide and am certain that they are meaningless in America. Only in America can a person own 2 cars, 3 or 4 tvs, eat 3 meals a day and still be considered poor. We have a whole class of people who are called the "working poor". These are people who by their own action and choices will remain poor no matter how much money they earn. These are the people who will spend their last $10 not on food, but on lotto tickets and cigarettes.



One thing I have to say here. For all the talk of greedy capitalists, America is ALWAYS the first to help other countries when trajedy happens. Earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, you name it and America is ALWAYS the first to offer help. Us greedy Americans are gettting sick and tired of helping the world out and then being called selfish. Perhaps America shoud become truly greedy and stop the trillion dollars a year spent on foriegn aid.
godsmack_theori
Likes: 3
Posts: 2625
Registered: ‎21-09-2011

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