MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT WARNING
Nothing in this video is new information, or mind boggling... however there has been some information shared here (2nd hand from a dev allegedly) and is very truthful and explains what lag is, what can/can't be done about it, and the effects of lag and compensation.
Someone else posted this earlier today and it did not conform to the COC, but I felt it deserved a repost.
Note: This is not a advertisement for Tmrtn, as I am not his biggest fan... but sometimes you have to judge the information, and not the person delivering it.
I look forward to a very interesting discussion... again, he does not go into detail about lag compensation. The best information I have ever found can be read here (https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking#Lag_compensation), have a look if you not seen it.
There has been quite a lot of discussions over the years about lag, the compensation required to minimize the effects of lag. This has prompted many to "fudge" their connections in order to try and have a decent experience. The funny thing is, it is very debatable that the information shared has only served to confuse people, because the fundamentals are not well understood.
I the video below, Tmrtn was speaking with a dev and has posted some highlights of the discussions w.r.t. to lag, how to combat it and what it all means.
I watched the video, and I believe that (for once?) someone is taking about some fairly accurate information in a way most can understand. I do, however, call BS on one point and I would appreciate comments on it. The point is: The devs can do nothing. This one is very debatable... yes there will always be lag, but it can be improved by better matchmaking. However, some people would find it hard to fill lobbies (I talk about this a bit below)
Have a look/listen to the vid... there is a lot of good informaltion.
The best part is you have the choice to believe it or not
The worst part is, you have the choice to believe it... or not.
Some things I got from the video:
1 - TS 0:55 - "No one has known what it is" lol not exactly true. Yeah misconceptions for sure, but a lot of people kicking around actually do (conceptually know what it is: Ghamorra, Izjar, phx, Buk, Maccabi of course, and yours truly as well as many others (sorry for tooting my horn, meh never mind point 1)
2 - TS 1:15-1:2:50 - a very good, simple explanation of lag (agreed)
3 - same TS 2:50 - he says that everyone is always in the past... nobody is on the same time (like in real life)
4 - TS 3:20 - "really nothing can be done" is not quite true. If people are matched better you will less effects on lag. THe question is: why is someone who is 50ms behind matched iin the same lobby as someone who is 150+ms behind. Yeah it can happen, but it seems to happen too much
5 - TS 3:40-4:25 talks about if your connection is bad, you are at a disadvantage accept you may be able to shoot people around corners. The explanation is bang on accurate. If you do not understand it, listen to it over and over. This is lag compensation at work. it is not a bad thing... it is because the player is lagged so th system compensates for said lag. Again: Why was that person in that lobby!?
6 - TS 4:45-5:40 talks about if your connection is good, you have the advantage. This is actually true for the most part... because you are moving the lagged people can get shot by you before you even know they are there. Many times we see people and die by them by 1 bullet. They are not lagged, you are. (again, we are these people matched together!!?)
7 - TS 5:50 A very interesting point. The best part of this game is that we can play with people around the world. The worst part of this game is that we do play against people around the world. So I call slight BS when Tmrtn says "the devs can do nothing about it". Why? Because people with high pings should not be matched together with people with low pings (to the host). This of course means that people from BFN* would never be matched and that would suck for them.
8 - TS 6:20- Be the host. This is arguable. We all know that in MW3 they implemented some host lag to try and level everything out as the host is technically in real time, and everyone is lagged to the host (they tweaked it a couple of times). This has also "apparrent" in Bo2. What is arguable here, is that people are trying not to be host, and in doing so they have gimped their connections. Although it is not always favorable to be the host, it is also a VERY BAD idea for people to be goofing around with their connections. Again... why are people I am soooo lagged to in the same lobby as me!?!?! Imagine if everyone in the world lagged themslves out so much as to never be host... where would we be then?
9 - Again on hosting and better internet. This is technically true. If everyone had better connections and people were matched to people with better connections, all would be well. Unfortunately, this is not the case.
10 - In the rest of the vid, we does make suggestions about what we can do on our end... and most of what he is saying (without going into too much detail) is a good idea for everyone to do...
11 - Be aggressive. He does not mean do not camp, nor does he mean run blindly. If you think that everything you see is in the past, this means that if you are moving there is a chance that people will be shooting not where you are actually, but where you WERE (lag compensation is there to help with this). However, if you are stationary, your afterimage and you hitbox (where you are) is in the same place! So if you are moving you are basically harder to hit. Lag does favor the moving hitbox, over the stationary.
* BFN - b**t f**k nowhere, or at least locations where the player base is low (also affected by time of day)
Credit to bringing the video to the forum for discussion should go to WhatzHisName . Unfortunately the thread was formatted improperly and violated the CoC.
The opinions above are my own, and totally open for scrutiny and debate
Message was edited by: rlbl
The first video I've seen that actually knows what they're talking about
yep... it was from a conversation with a Dev (alledgedly). The information is good though (I assume more people will like it as it is from a credible/popular/liked/hated youtuber)
lol.. point is, the info is good no matter where it came from
Yep, I would have liked it more though if he put blame on lag. The way he talked made it seem like lag compensation was the source of all the problem
On a side note he probably read one of our threads and made a video about it
ahahahahahah (I thought the same thing)
Seriously: What I did not like were the general comments about the "devs cannot fix it"
True, there will always be lag, but if matchmaking were improved (which can be fixed), the effects of lag and the compensation required to deal with lag would also be minimized, and often go unnoticed.
I wonder if they're stuck in a catch-22. I look at if from the outside and think, "here's an easy solution that would take little time and effort. Fix match making and be done with it". However, when I look at the fact that 3 years have passed and still no solution has been implemented I wonder if there's a complexity of issues fixing match making would cause.
Do to pride (something Activision doesn't seem short of) they don't want to admit it
Look at all the extras thay have added to the game over the last 3 years, there is an old saying G' "The more you complicate the plumbing the easier it is to stuff up the drains".
It boils down to Treyarch being the bench team forced into being the starters and not having the people to get right what needs to be. I said it Black Ops CoDHQ, they just want to get the game up and running. Appeal to the lowest of low and allow access.
The undeniable Truth is... since the break in and hacking, firing, quitting of IW employee's. . May I add...many were working on the online portion since it was only on PC...ending with their efforts on MW2. .. The game has been left in Treyarch's hands, and has never been decent as W@W. Yes, IW has their version, but it has to be a collective effort for the server side coding.. I guess you/i could call it. Or, someone has to take the lead.... If this is the leadership that is going to be... best to offer since Black Ops... no wonder they are going backwards and re-promoting and sponsoring offline gameplay.
Wow, you guy's are so full of yourselves!
To add to this, the party up function then really screws up the balancing act in the game. The best games in terms of connection, I noticed that there are no teams either on my team or on the opposing team. Is there a way to even compensate for this issue? Just a thought....
It strikes me as wrong that people cannot just pop the game in, and play how they expect a major release game to play. Instead they have to jump through a mass of burning hoops in the hope the game will allow them a decent game or two.
Good post though, a workaround is better than nothing.