I hope the spawn delay is back for Hardcore TDM

Call of Duty Ghosts General Discussion

Re: I hope the spawn delay is back for Hardcore TDM

in reply to Scotland-Rules

scotland-rules wrote:




rankismet wrote:




scotland-rules wrote:


 


What do you think about having the spawn delay in Hardcore TDM again?




Personally, no thanks.



If you go 20-10... a decent stat for a round of HC TDM... and happen to be the first person to die every wave spawn (15 secs), you are out of the game for 150 seconds.



That's 2.5 minutes.



25% of the game doing nothing.



Remove revenge as part of the spawn algorithm and 90% of the need for a spawn delay is fixed. HC vets aways have a clue wha streaks they have or they aren't a vet.



My 2 pennies of thought.




I actually agree with you on the top half but not the second half and I'll tell you why.



Revenge spawn system isn't something that's easily "Removable" or easily "Added" it really depends on map design, you can tell form MW3 where the maps were small that the revenge spawn system was lessened due to the wait penalty, you'd still be killed in spawn or kill a guy and meet him around the corner sometimes but those were few and far between.



In Black Ops 2 the maps were very small and when we did have the spawn delay the game was slower and the spawns were less chaotic and you were less likely to be caught short and the revenge spawn system was almost non exisitant. However, it was shortly removed I think and you then saw things like revenge spawn system creeping up and it eventually got really bad.



I say have for the start of Ghosts and if the maps are like MW2/BO1 (basically any CoD from BO1 downwards to MW) then I say remove the spawn delay as I'll know the spawn system will be better.



However if its like BO2 then we need it because without it, we have chaotic spawns and even worse revenge spawn.


Map design for certain plays a role... but ever since MW2, the algorithm for deciding on a safe spawn point has included "revenge" as a component. Combine this with matchbox sized maps and you have the wonky system that hindered MW3 and plagues BO2.

Also, BO2 map design does not allow for easy map control (and by result, spawn control) even when working with a 6 man, communicating team. A by product, in my opinion, of designing maps to be played well with 4 man teams. You have 33% fewer players... which means you also have 33% more space per player. The maps become too cluttered.

Cheers.

That's my opinion but it should be yours ;-),
RAN
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Re: I hope the spawn delay is back for Hardcore TDM

in reply to RAN Kismet

rankismet wrote:




scotland-rules wrote:




rankismet wrote:




scotland-rules wrote:



What do you think about having the spawn delay in Hardcore TDM again?




Personally, no thanks.



If you go 20-10... a decent stat for a round of HC TDM... and happen to be the first person to die every wave spawn (15 secs), you are out of the game for 150 seconds.



That's 2.5 minutes.



25% of the game doing nothing.



Remove revenge as part of the spawn algorithm and 90% of the need for a spawn delay is fixed. HC vets aways have a clue wha streaks they have or they aren't a vet.



My 2 pennies of thought.




I actually agree with you on the top half but not the second half and I'll tell you why.



Revenge spawn system isn't something that's easily "Removable" or easily "Added" it really depends on map design, you can tell form MW3 where the maps were small that the revenge spawn system was lessened due to the wait penalty, you'd still be killed in spawn or kill a guy and meet him around the corner sometimes but those were few and far between.



In Black Ops 2 the maps were very small and when we did have the spawn delay the game was slower and the spawns were less chaotic and you were less likely to be caught short and the revenge spawn system was almost non exisitant. However, it was shortly removed I think and you then saw things like revenge spawn system creeping up and it eventually got really bad.



I say have for the start of Ghosts and if the maps are like MW2/BO1 (basically any CoD from BO1 downwards to MW) then I say remove the spawn delay as I'll know the spawn system will be better.



However if its like BO2 then we need it because without it, we have chaotic spawns and even worse revenge spawn.




Map design for certain plays a role... but ever since MW2, the algorithm for deciding on a safe spawn point has included "revenge" as a component. Combine this with matchbox sized maps and you have the wonky system that hindered MW3 and plagues BO2.



Also, BO2 map design does not allow for easy map control (and by result, spawn control) even when working with a 6 man, communicating team. A by product, in my opinion, of designing maps to be played well with 4 man teams. You have 33% fewer players... which means you also have 33% more space per player. The maps become too cluttered.



Cheers.


That's what I'm saying though, if map design isn't good then the spawns would suffer and as a compensation, spawn delay is needed. Even if they removed the revenge spawn elements or reduced them, if bad map design plays again like we've seen from BO2 then the spawn delay would be essential to avoid horrible spawning.

In MW3 one thing that saved HC from experiancing so many problems as the core community did was spawn delay, you watch core videos of TDM and then watch HC videos of TDM, the spawn issues are much less and I put that down to the spawn delay.

I guess the question is: Would you rather have a reasonable spawn system which would incorporate a spawn delay? or would you rather have chaotic spawns and a faster game without it?

Another point about the pace of HC. HC is unique in the sense that it can be fast paced or slow and it all really depends on the players in that lobby. I've went into HC TDMs on MW3 and they've lasted 4 minutes whereas I've went into HC lobbies and they've lasted the full 10 mins.

Plus one more thing to consider is, the spawn delay in HC makes HC what it is. HC is designed to be slightly more realistic, yet also more methodical.

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Re: I hope the spawn delay is back for Hardcore TDM

in reply to Scotland-Rules


The map desgin for ghosts looks alot more thought out, of course time will tell and we wont know for sure until the launch day about all the maps included, but at least for now there is a glimmer of hope.

Either way, spawn delay or not i just hope we dont end up spawning ontop of each other death after death, game after game.

As for question (which i know isnt aimed directly at me) I would much rather have a reasonable spawn system with a delay, even if it is only 2-3 seconds just to the game can figure out somewhere safe to spawn me in.

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Re: I hope the spawn delay is back for Hardcore TDM

in reply to Scotland-Rules

scotland-rules wrote:




rankismet wrote:




scotland-rules wrote:




rankismet wrote:




scotland-rules wrote:


 


What do you think about having the spawn delay in Hardcore TDM again?




Personally, no thanks.



If you go 20-10... a decent stat for a round of HC TDM... and happen to be the first person to die every wave spawn (15 secs), you are out of the game for 150 seconds.



That's 2.5 minutes.



25% of the game doing nothing.



Remove revenge as part of the spawn algorithm and 90% of the need for a spawn delay is fixed. HC vets aways have a clue wha streaks they have or they aren't a vet.



My 2 pennies of thought.




I actually agree with you on the top half but not the second half and I'll tell you why.



Revenge spawn system isn't something that's easily "Removable" or easily "Added" it really depends on map design, you can tell form MW3 where the maps were small that the revenge spawn system was lessened due to the wait penalty, you'd still be killed in spawn or kill a guy and meet him around the corner sometimes but those were few and far between.



In Black Ops 2 the maps were very small and when we did have the spawn delay the game was slower and the spawns were less chaotic and you were less likely to be caught short and the revenge spawn system was almost non exisitant. However, it was shortly removed I think and you then saw things like revenge spawn system creeping up and it eventually got really bad.



I say have for the start of Ghosts and if the maps are like MW2/BO1 (basically any CoD from BO1 downwards to MW) then I say remove the spawn delay as I'll know the spawn system will be better.



However if its like BO2 then we need it because without it, we have chaotic spawns and even worse revenge spawn.




Map design for certain plays a role... but ever since MW2, the algorithm for deciding on a safe spawn point has included "revenge" as a component. Combine this with matchbox sized maps and you have the wonky system that hindered MW3 and plagues BO2.



Also, BO2 map design does not allow for easy map control (and by result, spawn control) even when working with a 6 man, communicating team. A by product, in my opinion, of designing maps to be played well with 4 man teams. You have 33% fewer players... which means you also have 33% more space per player. The maps become too cluttered.



Cheers.




That's what I'm saying though, if map design isn't good then the spawns would suffer and as a compensation, spawn delay is needed. Even if they removed the revenge spawn elements or reduced them, if bad map design plays again like we've seen from BO2 then the spawn delay would be essential to avoid horrible spawning.



In MW3 one thing that saved HC from experiancing so many problems as the core community did was spawn delay, you watch core videos of TDM and then watch HC videos of TDM, the spawn issues are much less and I put that down to the spawn delay.



I guess the question is: Would you rather have a reasonable spawn system which would incorporate a spawn delay? or would you rather have chaotic spawns and a faster game without it?



Another point about the pace of HC. HC is unique in the sense that it can be fast paced or slow and it all really depends on the players in that lobby. I've went into HC TDMs on MW3 and they've lasted 4 minutes whereas I've went into HC lobbies and they've lasted the full 10 mins.



Plus one more thing to consider is, the spawn delay in HC makes HC what it is. HC is designed to be slightly more realistic, yet also more methodical.


I'm an HC player, too. Since MW3, I've played mostly HC KC. Once you get used to not having a spawn delay in KC you find it irritating in TDM. It's annoying to sit in the dead room for up to 15 seconds.

A spawn delay helps with chaotic spawns when the team is composed of randoms or greenies. But a party will control spawns with/without a delay. I think HC players tend to communicate more and work more as a team (even when not in a party) because the mode is less forgiving. TBH, no spawn delay allows a good team to even better control the map.

I think we agree revenge as part of the spawn algorithm is an issue. We also agree map design plays a big part, too.

I want a spawn system that excludes revenge in it's algorithm without a spawn delay on maps which aren't corridor driven clusterbleeps.

I just prefer not having to wait around to respawn.

That's my opinion but it should be yours ;-),
RAN
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Re: I hope the spawn delay is back for Hardcore TDM

in reply to Scotland-Rules

The spawn delay was just a bad choice imo I think to make hardcore more tactical everyone should have a number of lives for all game modes that involve kills for instance if TDM is 75 points to win make it where everyone has 13 lives and if someone leaves the person that joins either waits or plays if the player who left had lives. And for KC they could have 17 lives basically making where people have to be more careful or they die or they could just make it a simple 10 lives for everyone. As for revenge spawn issues they could make Hardcore use an avoidance spawn system basically spawning players away or out of the sight of the enemy making it even more tactical. The reason why I dislike spawn delay is because it prevents spawn exploiters from being over run with enemies making spawn control way too easy and an exploitable spawn fest causing people to get bored and leave or it made noobs hate the game mode because they couldn't take things slow.

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Re: I hope the spawn delay is back for Hardcore TDM

in reply to Adam1234567893

That wouldnt work, as soon as someone runs out of lives they'll just quit the game.

Like others have said, the spawns need a complete overhaul, remove the need for revenge spawning, improve map design to allow for better spawn locations etc.

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Re: I hope the spawn delay is back for Hardcore TDM

in reply to Adam1234567893

Adam1234567893 wrote:



The spawn delay was just a bad choice imo I think to make hardcore more tactical everyone should have a number of lives for all game modes that involve kills for instance if TDM is 75 points to win make it where everyone has 13 lives and if someone leaves the person that joins either waits or plays if the player who left had lives. And for KC they could have 17 lives basically making where people have to be more careful or they die or they could just make it a simple 10 lives for everyone. As for revenge spawn issues they could make Hardcore use an avoidance spawn system basically spawning players away or out of the sight of the enemy making it even more tactical. The reason why I dislike spawn delay is because it prevents spawn exploiters from being over run with enemies making spawn control way too easy and an exploitable spawn fest causing people to get bored and leave or it made noobs hate the game mode because they couldn't take things slow.


Simply that wouldn't work and would actually damage the HC community.

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Re: I hope the spawn delay is back for Hardcore TDM

in reply to Scotland-Rules

Removing the spawn timer from HCTDM was just another way Treyarch shafted the HC community in BO2. They didn't ask if we wanted it removed, they didn't care when people asked for it to be returned, they just did nothing. I personally hate spawn timers, and hated the launch list for HC BO2, because they all had spawn timers. But removing it all together without seeking player input was just stupid. HCKC should remain without a spawn timer, and HCTDM should have it, albeit shorter.

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Re: I hope the spawn delay is back for Hardcore TDM

in reply to NoLifeKing29

Sometimes asking the community can be a very bad idea (how many goofy suggestions do we see all the time).

The question I wonder is: "How did removing affect the players in terms of popularity".

If there was a huge outcry and the players dwindled, then ya put it back.

If the numbers of HCTDM players grew and the "average" desire is to keep it out, then keep it out.


NoLifeKing29 wrote:



They didn't ask if we wanted it removed, they didn't care when people asked for it to be returned, they just did nothing.


Are you sure about this? From what I remember (MW3) HCTDM clan ops were hated because of the spawn delays.  You could be right though...

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Re: I hope the spawn delay is back for Hardcore TDM

in reply to NoLifeKing29

NoLifeKing29 wrote:



Removing the spawn timer from HCTDM was just another way Treyarch shafted the HC community in BO2. They didn't ask if we wanted it removed, they didn't care when people asked for it to be returned, they just did nothing. I personally hate spawn timers, and hated the launch list for HC BO2, because they all had spawn timers. But removing it all together without seeking player input was just stupid. HCKC should remain without a spawn timer, and HCTDM should have it, albeit shorter.


actually they did on twitter and end result was loads of screaming on the forums no player drop and the numbers in hctdm went up

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