Possibility to include a new statistic in Call Of Duty? What does the community/Activision think?

Call of Duty Ghosts XBOX 360

Re: Possibility to include a new statistic in Call Of Duty? What does the community/Activision think?

in reply to TheAscendantOne

I like your idea, how you brought your idea, the research and thought you put into your idea. You might wanna call it the IMPACT stat though as peeps might think darn that guy drinks a lot of gin while playing (;

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Re: Possibility to include a new statistic in Call Of Duty? What does the community/Activision think?

in reply to TheAscendantOne

You have failed to take into account w/l.  Meaning we might have a guy that has John Rambo like stats, but he knows how to win.  In games that are close, he comes through and goes positive, but in games that blow outs, he is running around trying to "Misery Loves Company" everyone on the map.

I believe w/l says a lot about a person.

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Re: Possibility to include a new statistic in Call Of Duty? What does the community/Activision think?

in reply to otisman666

You are most certainly correct, a lot can be said about Win/Loss ratio. You would still have your W/L ratio available to you obviously. This statistic isnt suppose to replace any of them (Kdr, spm, wlr), but be added to them and compliment them.

There also isnt a strong correlation between WLR and the GIN. You can have someone with a high GIN and low WLR because he always plays by himself and gets horrible teammates who have a .5 KDR haha. If they have a high GIN and high WLR chances are they play with a group of friends.

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Re: Possibility to include a new statistic in Call Of Duty? What does the community/Activision think?

in reply to TheAscendantOne

I'm not following you, Ascendant. If the stat doesn't tell us anything more than we already know, then what purpose does it serve? I can think of a purpose (which I stated upon my first impression of your idea) but I'll refrain from stating it for the sake of level-headed debate.

In addition, the testing you propose would still have a bias that is blatantly apparent in your proposal - you're testing the idea based upon party play. Without a doubt, using your formula, a team of players who regularly, routinely, always play together and would have a GIN of 100 would be an extremely poor performing team. That's obvious because of something much more obvious: if their kdr, spm, etc are low to begin with, the GIN is going to come out low. Like I said A + B = B + A. Watching how the average moves over time is equally not going to reveal anything that is not already known fact - most of the time, the more you play, the better you get; the better you get, the better your stats look.

In fact, I'm really not seeing how GIN would be better than SPM. Score Per Minute already takes into account kills scored and point-providing actions that the player takes during a match. Every time I play I see guys with substantially higher SPM than I have, but with substantially lower KDR. Those guys almost always have positive WLR. But so what? I have a positive WLR, as well. In fact, my WLR is about par with theirs. As far as high SPM players who have substantially lower or substantially higher WLR than mine, it's about even either way.

In other words, going by the relationship of SPM to WLR, as for WLR I think I'm very near the top of the bell curve. As for SPM, I'm definitely in the lower fifty percentile.

What are they doing different than I am?

I'll let you answer that question before I tell you what I've found to be the most common differences, one of which overwhelmingly stands out above all others.

"At the end of the match, there remains only ... nuttin 2 say."
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Re: Possibility to include a new statistic in Call Of Duty? What does the community/Activision think?

in reply to nuttin2say

nuttin2say wrote:



I'll let you answer that question before I tell you what I've found to be the most common differences, one of which overwhelmingly stands out above all others.


C'mon man, don't leave me hangin.  I'm very interested (no sarcasm.) 

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Re: Possibility to include a new statistic in Call Of Duty? What does the community/Activision think?

in reply to nuttin2say

I understand you aren’t following me, and I appreciate your pushback on my idea.

Like I have stated already, I am most certainly not inventing anything new or extraordinary. It is just like you said A + B = B + A – but the result is hard and fast number used to quantify your game impact vs another player. It is so simple and useful, I am just wondering why they haven’t put something like this into the game yet.

Your example you talk about with players with a high SPM and a lower KDR vs you with a lower SPM and a higher KDR is EXACTLY why the GIN is convenient.

The answer to your question is that you both would have identical GINs, thus effectively having equivalent WLRs. YOUR IMPACT TO THE GAME IS THE SAME and it is quantified in the GIN.

Here is your example broken down,

Other Player (Much higher SPM):

SPM = 300, KDR = 1.2

GIN = 360

You (Much higher KDR):

SPM 180, KDR = 2.0

GIN = 360

Even with very different play styles your impact, and therefore probability of winning a game is the same.

What are they doing different than you? They are rushing into combat, maintaining a positive K/D, and contributing most the kills to achieve victory. You achieve victory by killing efficiently, your kill total won’t be as high, but you will not have nearly as many deaths.

Driving factors that may contribute to play styles in this case are that the person with a high SPM is playing alone and must control the game if they are to win, depending on teammates less for victory. You perhaps, play with a team which assists in gaining the total kills needed to win and don’t NEED to run into combat to control the game, because you trust your teammates.

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Re: Possibility to include a new statistic in Call Of Duty? What does the community/Activision think?

in reply to otisman666

otisman666 wrote:



You have failed to take into account w/l.  Meaning we might have a guy that has John Rambo like stats, but he knows how to win.  In games that are close, he comes through and goes positive, but in games that blow outs, he is running around trying to "Misery Loves Company" everyone on the map.



I believe w/l says a lot about a person.


Agree up to a point.  In TDM, because most are poor to mediocre players, whether these guys win or lose tend to be quite random.

In fact, I'm more likely to believe a WL% at the fat part of the curve than one that's at the extremes.  An extremely high WL more likely than not means lobby/map shopping; conversely, an extremely low one more likely than not means quitting/dashboarding.

Thus, to give WL too much weight in any formula is a bit ill advised. 

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Re: Possibility to include a new statistic in Call Of Duty? What does the community/Activision think?

in reply to Yppecaye_the_Dogged

@ yppecaye ... what those guys are doing different than me is that they are playing in parties most of the time. It's extremely rare that I do that.

Starting with MW2, Call of Duty has become increasingly clan-centric. That's fine. I don't have any problem with that. Players perform better if they play with a regular crew for a lot of reasons. When you perform better, you have more fun.

The problem is that you still have a huge portion of the community that cannot be a reliable member of a clan. Hours, issues at home, etc, etc, can all interfere. I'm not saying that randoms suck. I'm saying that they simply cannot be depended upon to be there for clan matches or whatever.

Those players that can be a reliable member of a clan have started to realize the dichotomy this creates. So far TA and IW have not figured out a way to pit party vs. party reliably. The randoms realize the problems of that situation, as well. Randoms fight back by leaving lobbies as soon as it becomes apparent that they will be going up against an organized party.

To trick randoms into staying, all sorts of tactics have been devised. Parties stopped using clan tags. Then they stopped using similar gamer tags. Then they went to Skype to avoid having mic or party emblems reveal the party in the lobby. Randoms have picked up on all of those things and now look at SPM, WLR, and KDR.

That's why party players are now calling for stats to be removed from the lobby altogether. Well, you can kiss the franchise goodbye if you do that. Besides that, it's a double-edged sword for party players - they want those stats so they can boast about how good they are or even to just take pride in how good they are. At the same time, they don't want the randoms to see those stats because those stats scare away the randoms.

Which is the biggest problem I have with this GIN idea. Clearly it does not reveal anything that SPM and KDR already reveal. At the same time, it provides a stat that will be meaningless to most randoms. They simply won't know what it says about them or the other players. To me, that means the stat intentionally deceives certain players. They'll stay in the lobby not know if it reveals a strong team or a weak team. The strong team will then be able to decimate the weaker players who did not realize they were going up against a strong team.

Which will lead only to more back outs and more dashboarding.

"At the end of the match, there remains only ... nuttin 2 say."
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Re: Possibility to include a new statistic in Call Of Duty? What does the community/Activision think?

in reply to nuttin2say

nuttin2say wrote:



Starting with MW2, Call of Duty has become increasingly clan-centric. That's fine. I don't have any problem with that. Players perform better if they play with a regular crew for a lot of reasons. When you perform better, you have more fun.


They have certainly encouraged people to clan up with Elite.  Whereas, pre-Elite, the only way to get together was to meet players the ol' fashion way, in a match and friend up. 


The problem is that you still have a huge portion of the community that cannot be a reliable member of a clan. Hours, issues at home, etc, etc, can all interfere. I'm not saying that randoms suck. I'm saying that they simply cannot be depended upon to be there for clan matches or whatever.


At the peak of my own clan games mid MW3, we had about 20 members in "SupS" (nothing famous but very good top 5 players in TDM all above 2KD/270SPM).  We'd do very well in Clan Ops.  We had about 10 guys consistently participating in them. 

As time went by, however, except for the few guys that started the clan (the same top 5 players), less and less members participated.  Sadder still, out of these 5 guys, only one chose to play BOII after trying it out.  I'm lucky now if I see 2 guys from the old clan.

So far TA and IW have not figured out a way to pit party vs. party reliably. The randoms realize the problems of that situation, as well. Randoms fight back by leaving lobbies as soon as it becomes apparent that they will be going up against an organized party.

I think TA will continue to struggle with it because, simply, the overwhelming majority of players are solo/randoms.  Parties are always scarce, to consistently match up parties will require parties to have a lot of patience, waiting for other parties to become available.

That said, I don't know if parties will grow in numbers in Ghosts, so of course this might change.  They're certainly encouraging and faciliating clan participation.

More below....

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Re: Possibility to include a new statistic in Call Of Duty? What does the community/Activision think?

in reply to nuttin2say

nuttin2say wrote:



To trick randoms into staying, all sorts of tactics have been devised. Parties stopped using clan tags. Then they stopped using similar gamer tags. Then they went to Skype to avoid having mic or party emblems reveal the party in the lobby. Randoms have picked up on all of those things and now look at SPM, WLR, and KDR.


The changing CT thing is precisely what we had to do during MW3's Clan Ops to avoid people leaving the lobby.  We didn't go as far as avoing using similar GTs because we were simply a few guys that met each other by happenstance in some game.  IOW, we had very different GTs from the start.

So far I've just been reminiscing a bit about the old clan days.  But back to the point of stats.  I think solos/randoms, so long as there are stats, will always find a reason to avoid what they preceive to be better players. 


That's why party players are now calling for stats to be removed from the lobby altogether.


"Pretty Weeny", in the words of Norm Perterson from Cheers.  A double-edged sword in another way.  They just might be matched against a better team and not know it.  Then they'll be the ones quitting. 


Which is the biggest problem I have with this GIN idea. Clearly it does not reveal anything that SPM and KDR already reveal. At the same time, it provides a stat that will be meaningless to most randoms. They simply won't know what it says about them or the other players. To me, that means the stat intentionally deceives certain players. They'll stay in the lobby not know if it reveals a strong team or a weak team. The strong team will then be able to decimate the weaker players who did not realize they were going up against a strong team.


Come to think of it, the GIN idea is already in place in league play.  The Iron to Masters rankings already uses some forumla incorporating all the stats at issue here.  So, we already know the effects GIN might create. 

I played league TDM in season 3 and 4.  I, along with 5-7 guys I met during gameply were all either Masters or Platinums.  We'd have to wait forever for the lobby to fill up because lower ranked teams and even similarly ranked Masters/Plat solo players would just leave (can't hide your rank like a clan tag).  It's no wonder there were so many complaints from solo players in these forums. 

The only time we got a game going was going up against teams that were also Masters/Plats.  The rest were just guys that didn't care what rank you were and just wanted to play for fun. 


Which will lead only to more back outs and more dashboarding.


This will happen with or without stats.  The quitting/DB losers will leave any game in which they're losing.  In fact, a lot of the times it's the good players that are doing it.  I once saw a dude with a 2+KD/300SPM TDM owing the first 2-3 games and only to quit after I called in my VSAT eary the next game in Arms Race.  Sadder still, when I checked him on Elite he was going 8-2 before he quit.

Which takes us back to Hob's suggestion that there ought to be a stat for number of games not finished. 

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