To people complaining about Campers...

Ghosts XBOX 360


Vulcan Hades wrote:



However, if you accept the fact that Campers are bad players, you have to accept that you are TERRIBLE in comparison because you get owned by these campers.



I literally stopped reading at this part. Of course campers are bad players, they are slow to move, slow to ads, and slow to get on target and win gun fights, thats why they back their behinds in to corners and ambush unsuspecting players coming out of spawns, rounding corners, etc etc.

But where do you come up with the bullshit that everyone who believes campers are bad players are  in turn "terrible" and getting "owned" by campers???

FWCmurda
Likes: 27
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎30-12-2013

He's all over the shop in his post, not even sure he knows what he was trying to say half the time.

At one point he advises "Camping is hard in this game" then goes on to explain later why campers manage to get 10-2 and 15-4 K/D ratios every game.  Not great scores, but good for a role which is apparantly quite hard!

Odd.

admunday
Likes: 361
Posts: 425
Registered: ‎13-12-2013
Highlighted

I was only saying that campers get away with stuff they shouldn't get away with. That's why it seems like the best strategy. They get good K/D ratios because of players in the other team that don't know how to get around snipers.

But that fact does not make camping any more easy. It is only easy if the other team has a lot of bad/kamikaze players. But assuming both teams are equally skilled and have the same level of knowledge, then camping becomes very hard and it becomes increasingly harder with every second that goes by.

Vulcan_Hades
Likes: 46
Posts: 94
Registered: ‎02-02-2014

It is only logical. If campers are bad players, you shouldn't often get killed by them. And yet you are complaining about camping because they get more kills and less deaths than you. That should be a sign that you are a worse player because you are being outsmarted by a bad player.

It's exactly like losing to a spammer in fighting games. Only bad players will lose to full screen projectile spamming. Because above average players know how to easily counter this strategy and they know that spammers are in reality very weak and predictable. You just need to walk and block, neutral jump etc. until you make your way in and let them hang themselves.  But this is only obvious for good players. Bad players complain about spammers because they don't know how to get around a barrage of projectiles so they say it's cheap.

Vulcan_Hades
Likes: 46
Posts: 94
Registered: ‎02-02-2014

Trouble is, that isn't what you said.

You said "However, if you accept the fact that Campers are bad players, you have to accept that you are TERRIBLE in comparison because you get owned by these campers."

What you meant to say is that "However, if you complain about Campers, then it can only be because you are being owned by campers and you are Terrible".

If you apply your actual quote Murta referenced to another of your comments "Campers are bad players. YES. The truth is most campers are really bad players because they are extremely predictable and they lack general skill", then you have actually labelled yourself as TERRIBLE.

admunday
Likes: 361
Posts: 425
Registered: ‎13-12-2013

I see what you mean lol. I simply worded that part poorly. Of course I meant "if you complain about campers" not "everyone has to accept they are worse than campers".

Vulcan_Hades
Likes: 46
Posts: 94
Registered: ‎02-02-2014

Vulcan Hades wrote:



It is only logical. If campers are bad players, you should never get killed by them. And yet you are complaining about camping because they get more kills and less deaths than you. That should be a sign that you are a worse player because you are being outsmarted by a bad player.



It's exactly like losing to a spammer in fighting games. Only bad players will lose to full screen projectile spamming. Because above average players know how to easily counter this strategy and they know that spammers are in reality very weak and predictable. You just need to walk and block, neutral jump etc. until you make your way in and let them hang themselves.  But this is only obvious for good players. Bad players complain about spammers because they don't know how to get around a barrage of projectiles so they say it's cheap.


I think your making some extremely large sweeping generalizations. I personally have never complained anywhere about campers. never have never will, Im very good at killing and avoiding them but spawning with my back to a guy in a fern on prison break, or a drainage pipe off a spawn doesn't make me a "worse player".. how exactly is that me getting "outsmarted"? should I have opted out of spawning with my back to the camper? What is probably "smart" in these instances is to leave the game altogether if you don't even have a chance to turn around or take 2 steps. I play mostly FFA where some games can be really bad once the campers get their spots locked down.

But to say you "should NEVER get killed by" campers by the logic that they are bad? I mean really? really?

Sources: 3.43 K/D with over 20,000 kills and over 4.0 win/loss all via running and gunning.

FWCmurda
Likes: 27
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎30-12-2013

You are taking things too literally. If you don't complain about campers to begin with, then nothing I wrote applies to you.

Yes, of course everyone gets killed by campers every now and then especially because of the bad spawn points. But again my entire post is  for players who  *often* get killed by campers (because they don't know how to get around it) hence why they *complain* about it being a cheap strategy.  So once again if you don't complain about campers and have nothing against the camping strategy you shouldn't even be here. And yet here you are.

Vulcan_Hades
Likes: 46
Posts: 94
Registered: ‎02-02-2014

I truly think the word “camper” is over used and misused a lot.  If all someone does is sit in the same dark hole or in the same bush to get kills as someone runs by yes that is a camper.  If a player is DEFENDING a choke point on the map to keep the other team out of an area that is not camping. Holding down a spot and keeping the enemy from using a hallway or path by taking cover and killing people as they approach I would call defending. If you have a team of 6 working together like this you can stop the other team. And all you hear is “you $%@#^@#% campers!!” but the problem was they just keep running the same way and get killed 6-10 times. I see the problem is people take less time to watch corners move slowly as a team take cover and give cover fire for the team to move. Why do people think this game needs to be a balls out sprint 100% of the time?

thehunan
Likes: 93
Posts: 518
Registered: ‎15-08-2011

I didn't read your whole post, but that's purely just because I'm busy at the moment.  But don't worry, it's not for flat disagreement or anything either.  I see that this is actually a help thread, and who am I to say that your advice is good or bad, if what you said works next time I tried it, that doesn't mean you have to be Einstein for me to listen.  Bla bla bla, I'm gonna read the rest because I love learning more.

Preface #1 - I am a domination player, I never have and never will like the short game time that TDM provides, I feel like by the time the game feels comfortable it's already over.

Preface #2 - I was always a RnG victory objective win or game means nothing player, whether in a party or solo, up until 4th prestige of this game.  Now, I think I have a better overall perspective of choosing what matters most in what situation.  If I am losing in a match 170-130, I am not going to run to B and die 10-12 times, AND then have to try and also dominate them at their 3rd point when the situation presented to me dictates that's just not going to happen.  This is solo mind you, because you can safely assume teammates are not assisting you very much up to that point to begin with.  If it was in a party against a good team, then yea we would probably continue trying to win, because when in a party the win matters "more" so to speak. This is something I would have done, as well as ALL the players in my "clan" (we don't do clan stuff officially but there are 5 + split screener that "always" play together) up until 4th prestige of this game, going all the way back to COD4.

I think you are right that just because a camper in your lobby may have went 15-4, 18-6, 16-2 and then you even scan their KD and see its 1.9 and a W/L is perhaps even 1.5 or better, STILL doesn't mean they are a "good" player.  But, I think one key "trait" that a straight up camper has that a straight up RnG often doesn't have, is patience (straight up is key here, if you are flexible in game play strategies, then this doesn't really address you).  There are things that a camper doesn't possess that a RnG does also, it's not a superiority thing, RnGs often possess the will to sacrifice far more than camper, which is key in Dom.  I'm not talking about the respect level of each, don't worry.  There are many other traits both ways, and I agree, but patience is what I'm discussing now.

By learning how to camp on your own, you slow the game down for yourself.  Because, you are not moving "upstream" so to speak at all times, and your brain learns to run through orders of operations more clearly.  When you are camping, it's easier to cycle through looking at a primary door, and then the map,  and then a secondary spot, and then turning around. Etc, you can see what I mean.  You start to see how maps flow and where to expect the enemies easier.  When doing RnG, adding the extra element of "moving towards the action" , it's an extra literal dimension you need to worry about.  I think your mindset overall changes when  you start camping as well, in the sense of, you "value" each life more, meaning that your attention to detail improves.

That's why yes, I'd rather have the 3.5 player with 25 average kills PG that's aggressive over a 4.0 sniper with 13 PG any day on my team, if I had to draft one of them.

But, to GET to that point of being the former, I think everyone needs to go through a period of camping, because I guarantee you aren't a 3.5 RnG without having an exceptional level of anticipation and overall knowledge of player types, maps, etc. 

Let's put it this way, "it takes one to know one" so to speak, so it may also "take one to beat one" too.   My KDs as an RnG KD be damned "but not so damned cuz my brother is a 1.8 player and other brother is 1.5 so I'm not gonna be a .7 player" varied between 1.1 to 1.5 in all games.  This one, RnG was too tough compared to previous to keep our team W/L as high as it was in previous games.  In BLOPs 1 and 2, we had consistent win streaks of corny numbers like 202, 80, 100, etc.  In this game, our BEST W/L ratio is 6.  So, right this moment, all our W/L are dipped, but our KDs (for us) are by far the best ever. 

And I can also guarantee, that if we in a vacuum played ourselves in a Domination objective matters "Championship" from a year ago, we would DESTROY them, given all the things we learned by taking that dramatic adjustment finally in this game.  The things I do when capping B mentally are so much deeper than before, the order of operations, the approach I take when I am still 30 yards away, there are details I never would have thought of because of camping and learning how to play with a clearer mind.  Also, things like covering all angles of a map, etc, after having our desired 2 flags, things that would always be our undoing against a clan that entered our lobby, are the things that we now are learning to do with more and more consistency.

So, the tl:dr of my novel is just that, camping consistently for a change of pace (if you never have before) can drastically help your overall performance in the game going AGAINST campers, as well as other facets of the game, because it can help slow the game down in the future no matter what your style is.

kustom_shoota1
Likes: 69
Posts: 193
Registered: ‎27-11-2012

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