Going back to BO2 to get a feel for BOTG

World War II General Discussion


@iHattoriHanzo0 wrote:

Not quite sure why you would interpret SHGames as being "lazy" because it's boots on the ground. Don't you think it would have been much easier (lazier) for them to elaborate and work off of the mechanics in AW and just make AW2?

 

I don't think CoD could ever go wrong by revisiting its roots. I find that to a positive that grossly outweighs the negatives that some may encounter from a slower pace and less verticality.

 

There is no question it's going to be a different experience.. which I find to be a good thing in a franchise that pumps out a new game every Nov.

 


Not because it is boots on the ground but more has to do with they really didn't do anything to the core game, just a basic reskin. I anticipated that sicne WW2 doesn't really offer a whole lot of room for creativity while attempting to stay semi authentic. The only changes to the game was them basically renaming perks and slightly working how the load outs are handled. Besides that, HQ just a fancy lobby although I do like the concept and idea, not really innovative and kind of a copy off other games. The new game mode is promising, probably the only real major change I see in the game.

I wouldn't say the pump out a new game every year, at least in the sense they only work on it in a year. They beein working on this game for 3 years now, and the result, another COD reskin, really nothing more, that is where I feel the laziness comes from.

Now if they did just do reskins but built upon the core issues such as connectivity and online game performance maybe I might not be so critical and consider them lazy. Maybe lazy isn't the only desciption that is fitting, perhaps cheap might be more accurate in terms of developing the game.

Don't mistake some of my comments of only wanting advanced movements and faster paced game, that is just one aspect I enjoy. It's just that it is basically same game it was four years  ago with probably slightly better graphics and we can only hope smoother play, oh plus 1 new game mode. Everyone refers back to those that played at E3 as enjoying it but we all need to remember they were not in the same environment we will all have meaning connecting over internet with pretty cummy servers and connections. Also gotta remember most of those reviews are a bit biased.

Beem playing BO2 on XB1 and even though it is clunky, slow, graphics are kind of bad not to mention the connections are horrible due to P2P hosts, it is still a semi fun game, just so fricken slow. I really am hoping I am completely wrong at beta and the game plays really well but from what I saw at E3, doesn't look like much changed at all. I was secretly hoping to be wowed and it just feels like way over hyped at this point.

MurkBeserk Level 75
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I have to disagree with you on pretty much everything.... It is like a must lol. 
I think going back to what made Cod what it is today is a great idea.
Myself and many others very much disliked advanced movement, just takes more away from the game than what it actually puts into it. At least when I played I really only thought about getting from Point A to point B anything inbetween map was was really irrelivent. 

However not being able to wall run does slow down the game, it slows it down to a great pace. A pace where i can really enjoy the map considering these maps are some sort of representation of a real world place it makes it quite beautiful (prior to blood spladder but even that has it's own beauty).

It will also open up options for holding points better and actually relying on your aim/reaction time, rather than who can slide/jump to avoid gun fire on getting the kill. People got too used to boost jumping when they got shot so much so that if you look at some of the gameplay you can clearly see people jumping when encountering people and it really did not help them. 

I am bised, I use a sniper rifle for the majority of my playtime since regular guns are too brainless. I am really looking forward to using weapons that I recognize and in some cases have got the chance to use while also going back to getting really great kill feeds and colats.

St0newa11
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@St0newa11 wrote:

I have to disagree with you on pretty much everything.... It is like a must lol. 
I think going back to what made Cod what it is today is a great idea.
Myself and many others very much disliked advanced movement, just takes more away from the game than what it actually puts into it. At least when I played I really only thought about getting from Point A to point B anything inbetween map was was really irrelivent. 

However not being able to wall run does slow down the game, it slows it down to a great pace. A pace where i can really enjoy the map considering these maps are some sort of representation of a real world place it makes it quite beautiful (prior to blood spladder but even that has it's own beauty).

It will also open up options for holding points better and actually relying on your aim/reaction time, rather than who can slide/jump to avoid gun fire on getting the kill. People got too used to boost jumping when they got shot so much so that if you look at some of the gameplay you can clearly see people jumping when encountering people and it really did not help them. 

I am bised, I use a sniper rifle for the majority of my playtime since regular guns are too brainless. I am really looking forward to using weapons that I recognize and in some cases have got the chance to use while also going back to getting really great kill feeds and colats.


Advanced movments is not really something I necessary need  in the game.  I like it as long as it is limited, unlike AW. Even going back to the roots is not an issue. I wouldn't have been playing the franchise this long if I didn't like the older COD's. The two biggest complaints about the direction they have taken on this COD is the fact they didn't change anything, it is quite literally a complete reskin of older COD's at least in regards to how the game plays. The other is I am concerned it is going to be too slow. 

Movement mechanics for example. What did they change? Nothing. For example, they took the dolphin dive and changed it to "Hit The Deck" which it is slightly better but same, but why not a roll or both options. Why not do more with hand to hand combat, maybe instead of just a knife, may combo of some sorts that requires more than a button push or some mixture to get a kill, maybe some counters. Why not make the environment crumble and explode changing the map, why not change weather, time of day, actual doors you have to break down or at least open, or obstacles you have to move that change randomly so it is a slightly different experience each game. There was a thread not to long ago about chaning weather and in one example would be a hill would become slick in the colder weather like turning to ice so that environment could be used to your advantage or could potentially be a detriment. Not saying these are necessary changes but some examples that could have been implemented to make this different than a game from 4 years ago.

These are all just small things that could make the game a little more immersive. Right now they quite literally took the same exact game from before, tweaked it sliglty and threw a different face on it. The way the players move.... same, their abilities, same. There is litterally nothng different in the game play from past BOTG games that I can see. 

The other issue is with it going back to this is I feel it will promote very slow game play. I really hope I am wrong about this. I want to like this game. I get snipers will appreciate it, this is reasonable to some extent but they could have done something more innovative than just wrapping a new theme around the same old COD. 

MurkBeserk Level 75
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When I look at Call of duty I think fast smooth twitch based arcade shooter. These a lot of these things you say just would in my opinion screw with the games flow. Weather I could totally see day/night version  of the maps would be neat. But as the saying goes if it's not broken don't fix it. Old boots on the ground wasn't broken. Just because it's boots on the ground doesn't mean it will promote a campy style of gameplay, I think what will change the flow of the game will be the weapons. From what I have seen it doesn't look very campy people seem to be on the move and the SMGs compliment that. But we were also watching YouTubers so I guess we will find out when it comes to the beta how the game will play. I'm excited beyond words, I can't wait to catch triple colats and doubles they were so rare in these past Cods due to the advanced movement.

St0newa11
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@St0newa11 wrote:

When I look at Call of duty I think fast smooth twitch based arcade shooter. These a lot of these things you say just would in my opinion screw with the games flow. Weather I could totally see day/night version  of the maps would be neat. But as the saying goes if it's not broken don't fix it. Old boots on the ground wasn't broken. Just because it's boots on the ground doesn't mean it will promote a campy style of gameplay, I think what will change the flow of the game will be the weapons. From what I have seen it doesn't look very campy people seem to be on the move and the SMGs compliment that. But we were also watching YouTubers so I guess we will find out when it comes to the beta how the game will play. I'm excited beyond words, I can't wait to catch triple colats and doubles they were so rare in these past Cods due to the advanced movement.


There was heavy camping on IW but it was mitigated by increased flanking and verticality options. If this game doesn't offer ability to evade quickly or strong flanking options than it will be very very slow and very campy game. The flanking options on the maps they showed looked promising, the movement wasn't horrible in the sense to evade but if that is slowed down, it will be painful to play. If the maps get to big, it will be a game of hide and seek. It seems that the same people that want the old COD back are all asking for all the charactiristics that allow them to camp their cuter off and than they claim it is strategic. 

I don't think any of those items I mentioned would mess with the flow and were just very basic examples showing how they could have been more innovative with the game, all of them can be done in away that would increase the experience and not mess it up. Arcade shooter is correct but it doesn't mean it can't evolve into something that requires a higher skill level to decrease how stale the game will become.

I wouldn't base how fast paced a game is on youtubers who are playing for the first time on maps they don't know with weaposn they don't know and whose main goal is to get game footage that can be posted on youtube for views. That on no level demonstrates how most players play this game. Beta won't be any indication of that either unfortunatley for much of the same reasons. It will be by month 2 or 3 we really see the pace of regular game play. 

MurkBeserk Level 75
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I mean I look at it like its competitive, I just don't see there being a place in cod for destructable buildings or weather effects that literally change how the map is played. Maybe I am just old fashion and just really enjoyed the old cods for it being simplistic. It all comes down to my reaction time and my accuracy, in boots on the ground only way to evade fire was to be better than the your enemy. Many try hards would ***** dive constantly and some people jumped to avoid being headshot, I miss the good days of being shot in the back then turning on them and winning the fight just straight up they weren't as accurate. 

I do enjoy fast pace gameplay my brain seems to make better choices on the fly rather than flooding it with too many options. I always play the middle of the map to get as much action as I can. I think WW2 will give me what I am looking for.

"I wouldn't base how fast paced a game is on youtubers who are playing for the first time on maps they don't know with weaposn they don't know and whose main goal is to get game footage that can be posted on youtube for views. That on no level demonstrates how most players play this game. Beta won't be any indication of that either unfortunatley for much of the same reasons. It will be by month 2 or 3 we really see the pace of regular game play"

I agree but I think the beta would at least give me a good idea as to how I can play the game and what I could see others doing. I think with enough experience under ones belt they can make a well educated guess as to how the game "should" play out.

St0newa11
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@St0newa11 wrote:

I mean I look at it like its competitive, I just don't see there being a place in cod for destructable buildings or weather effects that literally change how the map is played. Maybe I am just old fashion and just really enjoyed the old cods for it being simplistic. It all comes down to my reaction time and my accuracy, in boots on the ground only way to evade fire was to be better than the your enemy. Many try hards would ***** dive constantly and some people jumped to avoid being headshot, I miss the good days of being shot in the back then turning on them and winning the fight just straight up they weren't as accurate. 

I do enjoy fast pace gameplay my brain seems to make better choices on the fly rather than flooding it with too many options. I always play the middle of the map to get as much action as I can. I think WW2 will give me what I am looking for.


 

Not sure how destructable envirnoment would harm competitve play, it would actually make it more competitive unless you just can't adapt and lack player skill but once again, that was just an example of how they could be more innovative, not necessarily a needed change. I get some might like the simplistic ways but the characters are already very simplistic and easy with very little skill gap outside of aim and basic strafing, once you get that down, there isn't much more to it. I get the impression those that don't like advanced  movemenst don't like a skill gap, they don't want better players to have an advantage, they like to camp and not move around and most of them can't adapt to reaction and twitch aim, they want to focus in one direction and shoot as people round corners, that isn't skill, at best you can consider that smart positioning but without maps, environment or at least player mechanics that allow you to counter that, that is all the game comes down too most of the time. Since you deem yourself a sniper, this style would suit you but your a very small minority of the players. Look around at all the other games out there, they are adapting and improving their games, making them competitive, introducing the ability to improve and excel beyond just aim, and sitting in a corner or a window waiting for someone to peak their head out. Sitting in the middle of the map bouncing from head glitch to head glitch isn't fast pace play, your might as well be playing duck hunt, your basically camping spawn and choke points. As far as your comment on the idea of it not being broke, well once upon a time, horse and carriage wan't broke but eventually it became obsolete.



MurkBeserk Level 75
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"Not sure how destructable envirnoment would harm competitve play, it would actually make it more competitive unless you just can't adapt and lack player skill"
It would come down to like you can't just drop a building in Cod, the maps really just don't fit that sort of destruction, also blowing a hole in the wall for another path could lead to issue with map balancing. I mean ya you could make it so only one spot crumbles revealing another path but that might as well just be another opening rather than destructable. I don't think it has anything to do with adapting or skill it just doesn't work in Call of duty. IMO

" I get some might like the simplistic ways but the characters are already very simplistic and easy with very little skill gap outside of aim and basic strafing, once you get that down, there isn't much more to it"
There has never really been a massive skill gap in call of duty, even with advanced movement. I mean once you nab a controller with extra buttons to make jumping and aiming easier it becomes just as easy as Drop shotting. Granted people out there do it without the advanced controller but I don't consider that a skill more of a disadvantage to yourself. 
I think the skill gap should rely on Map knowledge and skill with the weapons. This however hasn't been an actual thing for a very long time, since the maps have been shrinking and the best weapon in every Call of duty has been some sort of SMG. Maybe this WW2 cod will bring other weapons more into play with the maps we have seen seem to cater to being able to use different weapons for different areas of the map. 

" I get the impression those that don't like advanced  movemenst don't like a skill gap, they don't want better players to have an advantage, they like to camp and not move around and most of them can't adapt to reaction and twitch aim, they want to focus in one direction and shoot as people round corners, that isn't skill, at best you can consider that smart positioning but without maps, environment or at least player mechanics that allow you to counter that, that is all the game comes down too most of the time."
  You seem to pride yourself a lot on your ability to use the advanced movement system.  I wouldn't say people who don't like advanced movement don't like skill gap or that they don't want better players to have the advantage. (just something I noticed here what I quoted is very similar to my argument about QSing)  Like me I don't like advanced movement because I think it takes away from the game more than it gives. In terms of entertainment and fun, it bores me more than anything. 
There will always be campers in call of duty, there will always be campers in every game. Doesn't really matter what you do or what the pace of the game is set at.

"Since you deem yourself a sniper, this style would suit you but your a very small minority of the players. Look around at all the other games out there, they are adapting and improving their games, making them competitive, introducing the ability to improve and excel beyond just aim,"

It really only suits me due to AA being taken away from snipers it makes this air combat a much harder thing for snipers. Joysticks suck and all, being boots on the ground makes it more fun getting colats and double kills and really great kill feeds rather than just swating flies out of the air. 
I play most of the games out there FPS wise, none of them stack up to Call of duties Fast pace in the action gameplay.  
I mean you have siege, very slow game yes it has destructable walls but the game is all about being able to aim and do it quickly and tactically. But siege really isn't that big in the competitive scene its not really all that balanced.
Than you have titanfall with arguably the smoothest advanced movement out there. But everyone got bored of that game and it just died off....... again. 
Battlefield has some competitive play to it but the game and all its sandbox like features just really doesn't make for a great competitive game. 
Really the best Competitive game as far as I am concerned is Overwatch and that is because those devs take incredibly good care of it. Always changing things and always trying to maintain balance with a good skill gap. also zero lag.... "cough cough call of duty"
I am drawing blanks here for other games for some reason... I just finished working all night so i may need a kickstart fill me in on what games you were thinking of.

As Driftor said, (mind you I don't even really like driftor)

 Call of Duty is always hyped every year but this year its hyped and its overwhelmingly positive. Not just hyped







St0newa11
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Me I personally don't mind either. I agree advanced moment equals less campers or should I say it's easier to kill campers but I grew up playing MOHAA and Cod 1 and 2 so I guess I am glad to go back to roots. Hopefully though the game pace is fast like MW2 and not to battlefield like as we might as well play BF1.
Dante2k Level 74
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I think MW2 pace of gameplay was perfect or Bo2. Maybe more Bo2.
BF1 and Cod are so very different from each other I could never see the similarity. 

St0newa11
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