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      • 10. Re: Swiming with Sharks. Chaos/Fun vs Competition/Balance
        "We did that with Barebones and Pure. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I understood the reasons, agreed with them, and did it. However these are some of the least popular playlists we have."

        These playlists should end the conundrum, but like you said, out of the millions that play multiplayer, these playlists are the least popular.  Black Ops is the most balanced game in the series to date, no matter what mode or lobby you play in.  Good job!
        • 11. Re: Swiming with Sharks. Chaos/Fun vs Competition/Balance
          ghostsquad

          IWINSLOW wrote:

           

          My two cents. Remove the least popular playlist and replace it with a MLG playlist and allow people to self police.

          Would it be an option to only allow complete teams to join lobbies?




          How would people "self police?"
          • 12. Re: Swiming with Sharks. Chaos/Fun vs Competition/Balance
            iidarkshadowoo
            In my opinion, an MLG playlist is not probable.

            -You turn one thing off or block it out. We'll call this thing, X. Well then, whose to say X is fine but instead items D and F are nooby/overpowered (whatever term people use) and that these should be blocked/changed instead? When people play Gamebattles, they use all kinds of rules and put in different limitations all the time. They set it to suit their team. If you thought there was diversity before, well then, you're entering a whole new ballpark.

            -Besides the fact that many people would be too picky in what the want, I can't really see an actual use for it. Correct me if I'm wrong, I never found out, but I'm assuming the point of an MLG playlist is to increase competition. Well, if you were to just go by the rules formulated by them, I couldn't possibly understand how adding a few seconds to a bomb plant time or changing the time limit of the game would increase competition.
            It's not going to change the players abilities.

            -As stated, it would probably be too hard to place people where they should belong along the lines of skill level...there's too many factors as you've probably already thought of (based on time, kills, some kind of ratio? what if people don't want to always be put with "good" people. etc, etc.)

            -There's a natural reaction nowadays for people to group up against the whole idea of MLG. I might know why. It may be just the setting that MLG creates. It's the fact that the playlists are selective or different that allows some people(immature people, of which there seems to be a lot online) to carry a "I'm better than you" attitude "because I play this and you don't." That may not be in the best interests of the community as a whole.
            So at this point, I'm not seeing much value for an MLG playlist. (yet)

            -Now, when I use or read the term MLG, I'm very careful. I hold two distinct definitions of that term. I label them MLG and pseudo-MLG. The pseudo-MLG players are probably what that "tweeter" was speaking of. They're the stereotype; the ones that just have bad attitudes; the ones that just think if players don't play the way they do or use what they dislike, then those players are bad. I stray away from them. Then there are the gentlemen you will be seeing. The MLG players are few and far a between. (You know, there aren't that many sharks in the world- sad face) They aren't playing a "game" like a lot of people are, they're playing in a real competition for glory- for money! How many people play basketball and how many people are in the NBA? I'm not saying they can't think properly, they could possible have great opinions/ideas...I'm just reminding you that there aren't a lot of players like them.

            -Self-policing...oh dear...no comment. 

            -I see one great value in having an MLG playlist. 1)Just another thing to add to the list of "things you do with respect to listening directly to the community." Those are always nice. You get some "thanks Vahn!" for the fact that you interact like it has usually gone in the past along with some more happy people that personally enjoy MLG. [Persoanlly, I'd take that road.  ]

            -But overall, I think you should leave it up to yourselves.
            You are the guys that do this for a living. This is your major. This is what you've been at for years now.
            The community is just way too well...unique.
            Overpowered this and overpowered that when some of them don't even know what balancing is or recoil for that matter. As for the feedback, it's pretty evident at that this point that practically everyone thinks their a gaming genius these days. Of course I don't want to generalize, I am well aware that there are plenty of sane people, but a lot of people tend to forget that it's not just their game.
            I feel more confident with what you guys determine the best decision rather than some person with a decent job, living in Miami, that plays games every Friday night. I feel confident because I know that you guys understand that "his perfect game is not the same as the next person's game," (you said that...somewhere along those lines) and that "every suggestion is vetted, and scrutinized from every angle; this is necessary when pushing updates out to millions of players." (JD told me that once)
            That's what you guys (Treyarch) tries to do (from what I've been told), but I don't feel "we" all do.
            So just do what you feel is best.

            Edit: Internet died out, but luckily I still have meh post!
            • 13. Re: Swiming with Sharks. Chaos/Fun vs Competition/Balance

              GhostSquad wrote:

               

              IWINSLOW wrote:

               

              My two cents. Remove the least popular playlist and replace it with a MLG playlist and allow people to self police.

              Would it be an option to only allow complete teams to join lobbies?




              How would people "self police?"



              If your team is really out of place in the playlist, then you will do nothing but lose.
              • 14. Re: Swiming with Sharks. Chaos/Fun vs Competition/Balance
                The main balance problem is the variety in the guns. Most of them are the same. 3 default full auto fire rates (one of which is only used on one gun, by default). MW2 guns were balanced. And that game was plenty chaotic. But here, Spectre and Ak74u>all other smgs. As the stats of the others are the same, but those two have a bigger mag size. And the assault rifles, they're the same too. The commando, Ak 47 and the galil fire at the same rate, have the same damage and they have similar recoil. What's the point in using the AK 47, when the commando bounces less? And the FAMAS. Why use any of the SMGs over something that fires at the same rate and does more damage? It out hip fires SMGs. And the ADS don't matter much outside it.

                Another thing is, you don't have much initiative to prestige. Mostly cosmetic things. And you lose all your money, and start of from scratch. Thats why a lot of people say the game gets boring faster.


                That's just my two cents.
                • 15. Re: Swiming with Sharks. Chaos/Fun vs Competition/Balance
                  Gvillewideout
                  impressed with you posting on this and i can tell you actually care about the game. treyarc and vahn just went up in my respect. idk about that olin guy though :p
                  • 16. Re: Swiming with Sharks. Chaos/Fun vs Competition/Balance

                    Brandaman wrote:

                     

                    I don't really know much about MLG, but the bit that caught my attention the most was the balance and fun part.

                    MW2 wasn't balanced, but it was fun. Black Ops is more balanced (although, not totally there), but it isn't as fun.

                    The thing that made MW2 fun was the large amount of play styles that were available to you. You could pretty much use any gun on any map and do good. I saw someone running around with Akimbo MP5k's on Wasteland and he had a respectful result.

                    On Black Ops, though, if you tried using Dual Wield PM63's on, really any map, the chances are you're not going to do good. I think this is Black Ops' shortfall. The maps could do with a bit more colour, too.

                    But anyway, to my point, balance doesn't = fun. I'd rather have fun than balance, to a degree. The weapons need to be balanced, but they need to be different too. You can't have 5 or 6 SMG's with almost the same stats, it just takes away from the variety. WaW had varied guns, just look at the PPSh. Weapons in a Call of Duty should range from weapons like that to weapons like the M60 which are completely opposite.

                    Anyway, I don't know if this really has anything to do with what you were asking, but hey, feedback is feedback, right? Oh and Vahn, ditch the face paint next time, or just incorporate it into the player models themselves

                    Edit #4: Chaos = Nuketown 24/7



                    You're completely off.

                    MW2 is pretty balanced and very fun
                    Black ops is unbalanced and relatively boring

                    I dont think balance is completely to blame, but to say balance = boring is just stupid.. especially considering we've never had a truly balanced game.


                    As for, "MLG thinks everything is overpowered"... I dont even get what that means. MLG players use the best weapons; AKA OP [excluding burst fire, which should be the best in the hands of a good player] weapons... and those would be:

                    M16/AK47/74u
                    UMP/Famas/ACR
                    Famas/74u

                    Which would technically mean they think most guns are underpowered.. which is somewhat true.
                    • 17. Re: Swiming with Sharks. Chaos/Fun vs Competition/Balance

                      asasa wrote:

                       

                      You're completely off.

                      MW2 is pretty balanced and very fun
                      Black ops is unbalanced and relatively boring

                      I dont think balance is completely to blame, but to say balance = boring is just stupid.. especially considering we've never had a truly balanced game.


                      The weapons in MW2 were balanced. When it came to things like OMA, Danger Close and Commando, that's where the balance was thrown off.

                      I never said balance = boring, or did I? I forget. If I did, I didn't mean it. Let me check.

                      EDIT: Oh yeah, that. I meant having a balanced game doesn't automatically make it fun.
                      • 18. Re: Swiming with Sharks. Chaos/Fun vs Competition/Balance

                        Brandaman wrote:

                         

                        asasa wrote:

                         

                        You're completely off.

                        MW2 is pretty balanced and very fun
                        Black ops is unbalanced and relatively boring

                        I dont think balance is completely to blame, but to say balance = boring is just stupid.. especially considering we've never had a truly balanced game.


                        The weapons in MW2 were balanced. When it came to things like OMA, Danger Close and Commando, that's where the balance was thrown off.

                        I never said balance = boring, or did I? I forget. If I did, I didn't mean it. Let me check.

                        EDIT: Oh yeah, that. I meant having a balanced game doesn't automatically make it fun.



                        Right, but did OMA, DC, or Commando make the game more fun? No. Those imbalances greatly detracted from the enjoyment.

                        Balance and weapon variation make a game more fun. You can't variety unless you have both.

                        Balanced but little variation in weapons = no variety as the guns are all too similar
                        Unbalanced but lots of variation = no variety as only OP guns are used
                        • 19. Re: Swiming with Sharks. Chaos/Fun vs Competition/Balance
                          Icy_tissues
                          I love how cocky and arrogant they are.. Come play on pc and bring your crappy controllers with you, console scrubs.   
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