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Test #1There is a much larger demand for more hardcore objective based games from the player base than an "mlg" playlist which only benefits the mlg community whereas the rest of us would just look at it as a stricter version of barebones.. and not use it
In my opinion.. the playlist wouldn't be used for actual mlg competitions just so what exactly is the point of it? if the mlg brigade want to play as near to mlg rules as they can over the internet then they have private matches , at the end of day as much as they make noise they are a teeny tiny percentage of the blops player base and any playlist removed would effect the larger community adversely which is wrong if you ask me
Great post and way to really explain the situation to us that missed the event. My concerns and ideas shoulder many of yours.
Should MLG get a playlist exclusive? No. You want to call yourselves "competitive gamers" then game competitively! Play the game by the same rules that the other millions have to play by. You want a fair and balanced gameplay. You got it! Game exploits and situation exploit are part of the game that we all have to deal with. Now we have removed the Prestige playlist and this should be used for a battles playlist. Matchmaking could be done in a lobby form and then transferred to a game lobby so clans could battle. But changing specific game rules to suit an even playing field is left to personal judgement. You take away Flak Jacket because the protection from explosive devices and you now made a new gameplay environment. You make a defense, that now can rely on clays and nades. Everything you do in the game to remove original content and structure alters the game to "nerf" it! Do I like Second Chance? No. But I play the game and deal with it. I use extra ammo to ensure I follow the target to the ground to disable the perk. I also know that the 4 guys using Second Chance on the other team cannot see my claymores, cannot sprint unlimited, are affected by my secondaries, and cannot hear me as well as those rocking Ninja,Tac,Marathon, and Hacker.
If anything we can learn from this is that we can make a playlist that allows for more creative matchmaking on PS3 and not Xbox. However this can be used to make a more creative matchmaking system on the next installment of CoD. Lets set up a "Battles" playlist that carries seperate stats as does Combat Training and Online Play, like it does now. Can we successfully allow a "battles" playlist that won't be exploited or manipulated by boosters/cheaters? No, but we can use this fantastic recording system to self moderate these losers that decide to raise stats in a misguided and illegal way. There are many things to be thankful for in this series and I would like to personally thank "Vonderwhatshisname" for standing for what Treyarch and this game have created. To stand behind the devs and fanbase to provide a complete game that like war has flaws that are acceptable for loss, is life, and in itself acceptable!
We as gamers are capable of handling a "Battles" playlist as devs are capable of creating it with very minor coding issues. You make it, we will enjoy it and moderate it with help from the ban hammers! Thanks Vahn for the post and all the insight. You are one crazy bastard!
AlchlcSmnThrwr or Play 1 Handed - X360 GT
Test #1Wow, that was long.
Hey there Vahn. I'm big on Call of Duty, big on Search and Destroy, and was big on MLG for a while. What I really want to focus in on is Search and Destroy. If there was one thing I felt MLG got right, it was switching sides each round. It really makes the playing field more fair. Sometimes defense/offense is really easy to handle on one map while on others it can be more difficult. Switching rounds eliminates any excuse.
What I wouldn't agree to is obviously having hardcore off while friendly fire on...god no.
In addition, I strongly dislike the idea of making the plant/defuse time 7.5 seconds. I don't see how adding two more seconds makes the game more competitive; and it would just be easier for players by eliminating any confusion when switching between MLG playlists and the other regular game modes which include Search&Destroy.
Now about the making room situation...I couldn't think of any reason to take out any game modes in any other playlists. You guys already removed three game modes under the Prestige Playlist and only added one game mode (Mercenary Team Deathmatch) in the Core Playlist. So couldn't you just add two more game modes under an MLG Playlist in order to keep the count equal as it was beforehand?
Capture the Flag and Domination both deal with "flags," but Search and Destroy is an extremely different game mode entirely with often a separate fan base.
What I was thinking of was one game mode called "MLG Flags," and another called "MLG Search"
Just my thoughts. Thanks.
Test #1From what i understand, you want an MLG playlist in CoD - BO. So instead of playing around with the current "online" playlists. Why not add the MLG playlist to the "private match" playlist options?
And then maybe (if possible) link to the MLG leaderboards.
Seems more prudent to do it this way, as if you add MLG to the online playlists, its going to be (to some degree) used as a boosting central for xp and cp.
For anyone using MLG now, we have to use private matches. And this is absolutely fine because the only thing you gain from it, is rank (or derank) from the MLG leaderboards.
Test #1Spent a while reading and then re-reading it just so that I got to grips with what you were saying, and what parts you were addressing. First off, really top stuff on acknowledging the competitive community with regards to the playlist. Whilst I don't play MLG Variant (I play using the European Competitive Ruleset - Decerto) I think it would be a brilliant idea to have an MLG playlist.
The first few things you mention with regards to enforcing controllers/headsets and the other 'non' online factors doesn't particularly matter. Whilst those rules do matter at LAN events and OPCE's, online they do not. I'm sure that the majority of the competitive players do not go to LAN events and instead play gamebattles or any other competitive gaming website.
With this in mind, everything that you've said is completely relevant to making the MLG playlist succeed. Having the gametypes and maptypes from MLG be in rotation in the playlist would be brilliant and provided the rules were kept the same, it would be a great addition. The few times that I play public matches or play on my own, I usually tend to go into Team Tactical because I'm not a huge fan of 6v6 and I feel that currently Team Tactical offers the most competitive environment in the public arena. However, if there was an MLG playlist then it would be brilliant for me to be able to hop into that when I'm waiting for my team to get on or just warming up before a few scrims.
I believe that the post above me said that the competitive players should stick to customs rather than have our own playlist? Fair enough, your opinion is just that, but it's going to increase the popularity of Call of Duty at a competitive level, which is a great thing. MLG Playlist on Halo is very popular because it appears so appealing to the player, if anything you need to give it a trial period so that you can gauge how popular it would be and if it wouldn't be abused.
I have to say my worst nightmare would be to be in the MLG playlist and come up against a bunch of people using Flak Jacket, Warlord Pro, Second Chance Pro and having the 74u's with Grip and Rapid Fire. But I'm also sure that those would be the minority and the large majority of players would love the opportunity to play competitively in regular matchmaking.
Finally, glad that you've responded to the communities desire for the playlist. Really great stuff. It should also be implemented onto both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 too, whilst the Pro Circuit is on the PS3's, the large majority of players in the competitive arena do play on the 360.
(Good for you that there's not such a huge desire for a Decerto ruletype playlist - there's a loooot of stuff banned! I mean a LOT)
Test #1And i agree about the rules that MLG use, they are very "drill sergeant".
Maybe you can meet halfway with the MLG owners, and set some rules you can both use for the playlist.
Bomb plant and defuse - 6 seconds.
hardcore - disabled
spy plane - disabled
killstreaks - disabled
recording - always on
(and set that as the rules for your mlg playlist) None customizable.
Test #1You can bypass a lot of the general rules they are meaningless online. I think that you could come up with a MLGish playlist that would make competitive players happy. The game types and maps seem easy to implement, the game settings could match as much as possible. The big issue is the weapons and perks ban. Banning all equipment seems easy, for the perks since MLG only uses certain ones and banns a majority or makes them irrelevant that's a tough call. If you leave them on then players will join in using ghost, flak jacket, warlord, ones that are considered not MLG. The easy solution is ban perks, the only ones I see of benefit are lightweight, ninja, marathon, and SOH anyways. The rest are either banned or of no use example hardline, hacker, second chance. Basically comes down to sacrificiing either all or none to keep it competitive in regards to MLG. Not sure how you would ban weapons and attachments again it seems alll or none scenario? Basically looks like a barebones playlist with MLG maps, modes, settings?
Test #1First off, I have to thank Vahn for actually taking the time to go through every major and minute detail for these competitive settings. Just saying - I (and I'm sure a lot of the other competitive players) am extremely appreciative.
That being said, here are the things I just want to put my 2 cents into. Not sure if I can put this into a coherent argument, considering there is a lot to note on. But here we go...
In regards to Banned Secondary Weapons, Tactical Grenades, Equipment, Perks & Weapon Attachments...
MLG has been known in the past for changing up the permissible loadouts for competitive play. Dare I say it's name, but they have a bad reputation of putting very diverse settings up for Halo. However, it's safe to say that MLG will retain the same settings for Black Ops throughout this season. Though, there have been a lot of talk about changing up these specific settings.
Flak Jacket and Rapid Fire have been discussed excessively among the competitive community. Specifically, some of the pros previously discussed the option of having one Flak Jacket objective user. Also, RF was banned before the season started up because of the excessive use of the 74u pre-patch (the argument of why use an assault rifle when the 74u did all your short-long range work). Those are the only two that have been consistently up for discussion while the remaining banned choices stay banned without question.
I can see that changing the code is risky and troublesome, considering not only the effort on part of the coders but as well as replicating the rules that may or may not change in the future. But judging on the current ruleset, if there were a glimpse of a chance to change the code to prohibit certain key items, most things would stay the same for this season and most likely multiple seasons. A lot of other leagues and local tournaments have adapted MLGs way as a credible, competitive and fair ruleset. Basing off MLG's settings would profit towards other leagues as well.
In regards to gametypes (specifically, Domination)...
I think at this point, Domination is the least of worry. The consensus over Domination for this first event was "get it out of there", since Search and Destroy is more of a fan/player favorite. Domination requires a full 16 minute play while CTF and S&D require 10 minutes of playing. From last I heard, it's already in the works to move towards S&D as a common gametype for earlier rounds.
As far as not being able to play both sides of the map with Domination, I think more people would prefer having the chance to play with MLG settings on the map anyway. Like a few already have said, it's more about playing with the specific game settings that make it fairly competitive than trying to run in Team Tactical where it's still a lot of 4v4 claymores and noobtubes.
And lastly, Playstation 3 over Xbox 360 ...
I can already understand the grief that may come from Xbox 360 users. Our team didn't even practice on the PS3 - we stayed on the 360 right up until the first day of MLG. But to be honest, if at all, a MLG playlist should be at the Playstation 3. Competitors are switching or already have switched to the PS3. Based on experience, it's folly to practice on the 360 considering the controllers and the PS3 setup. There's a drastic difference in feel from the 360 to PS3 on LAN.
Now, this is what I think about a MLG playlist in general. Like I said earlier, serious competitors who are planning to go sometime in the future to an event will have already switched or are going to switch to the PS3. Those who aren't interested in going to live events but playing at a competitive level will stay on the Xbox 360 and play Gamebattles/360icons/etc. Comparing the numbers between the PS3 competitors and the Xbox 360 GB players...HUGE difference. There are so many GB360 players that play and considering CoD has been such an online-only community for so long (with the absence of live events for the series), a lot of players will continue playing in GBs and scrims. A MLG playlist on the 360 would bring numbers, but if the coding is not to be dealt with and certain items were not banned, then what's the purpose of having the playlist at all?
I guess I'm just running around with my thoughts here. Basically what I'm trying to say is that if there were a playlist to be made, it would only make sense to have it on the PS3. The competitors for live events have to play on PS3. But of course, a lot of the competitive players are already on the Xbox 360. But if you can't make the settings happen on the 360, not the end of the world. Enough players are still running through GBs and scrims as of right now. I think a lot of people would prefer to have the right settings and practice under it then have to play a nerfed version of the settings in playlist then adapt to what's permissible at a MLG live/online tournament.
For example, similar to what happened for Reach (Sorry! I know I should never speak it's name. But it's relevant) MLG had V1 settings which had no sprint, 110% speed, 100% melee damage. Something like that. V2 had sprint, 75% melee damage, and 120% run speed. Extremely different settings and extremely different gameplay. A playlist that does not equivocate to the actual settings of the tournament (MLG or otherwise) would be like playing V1 settings when it's V2. Wouldn't work and shouldn't be there.
I guess I've done enough rambling. My whole thing about this situation is this - if it cannot be done right (as in majority of settings in accordance with tournament settings), shouldn't be done at all. I think a lot of us can settle for something we already don't have and just patiently wait. "Better than nothing" is easier said then played.
Test #1The fact that an MLG playlist is even being discussed is great news. Like said in many previous posts, the only thing we care about are the settings. However, I would be quite disappointed if it were to be on PS3 only. PS3 gets the live events, so all of the teams are over there, and it's quite easy for them to find scrims and what have you. On 360, it's a complete ***** finding a decent scrim, so a playlist would really be nice to just work with your team and what not. However, that's just my two cents, I plan on getting a PS3 once I'm financially sound, but for now I think if there is going to be a playlist, it should be on both consoles.
Test #1I'll keep it short and sweet.
While I agree with the sentiment that, as of right now, MLG rules are far too complex to be written into the game for the sole purpose of appeasing a very small minority of players, I will say that there can be a middle ground. As someone who's been a part (aka fan, follower, and wanna-be competitive gamer) of MLG since 2006, I experienced such a middle ground with halo 2's Hardcore playlist. While not specifically MLG, it satisfied many gamers as a source of competition. While Black Ops has a lot more meat on the bone (Equipment, Perks, etc.), that isn't to say that some sort of competitive playlist can be created that would not take hundreds of man-hours devoted to rewriting code in the game.
With that said, the Hardcore playlist in Halo 2 saw mediocre traffic: teams serious about competing in MLG-style tournaments always preferred private matches over pubs. Despite my fondness for MLG, I doubt a competitive playlist would see more traffic that TDM, Domination, SnD, Ground War, etc. In fact, I'd say its population would be somewhere on the level of Team Tactical, so it's up to the developers as to whether or not they want to add a playlist that will appease so few.