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      • 10. Re: #hcflags and #hcbombs - adding more HC game mode variants
        all i play is hardcore and I love headquarters I would love if u made more game modes i think headquarters tdm and SnD should all stay i wouldn't mind seeing CTF leave for HC flags and free for all leave for HC bombs
        • 11. Re: #hcflags and #hcbombs - adding more HC game mode variants

          VelezRenzo wrote:

           

          I play Hc CTF a lot and that almost never happens.



          Good on you, but it still happens and is exploitable as of now.
          • 12. Re: #hcflags and #hcbombs - adding more HC game mode variants
            Cheefbird
            Thanks for the post Vahn ... we know you've been busy.

            First off, for me personally, and from playing private matches over the weekend with the crew, I personally feel like excluding any maps isn't really necessary.  After all, this is hardcore, we should be able to adapt to the friendly fire, decreased health/regen aspects of it in any locale.  Furthermore, the voting feature will provide an avenue for players to avoid any maps that eventually garner reputations as magnanimous as Nuketown (be it good or bad).  Bottom line: excluding maps isn't really all that big of a deal. For DOM for example, B is almost always an open, difficult to capture, easier to hold, position.  Excluding one map for this reason makes it more about popularity than that previous reason alone.

            The big issue when crafting the playlists is in the details.  For example, wave spawning (a la HC CTF) needs to be disabled for HC Dom. The exclusion of perks/attachments shouldn't even really be broached for this topic simply because going there is just asking for redundant argumentation. If we can just avoid that altogether, that would be helpful, especially in the interest of getting this online asap. Maybe we should use this next weekend's open lobbies to play 2-3 games of each game mode and hammer out these details (unless you 4RUM'ers have already gone ahead and done this)?

            In response to Spawn killing ... as someone who can do it almost everywhere, this is a non-starter.  For this issue to be addressed, we would need to address spawning altogether, which I assume would require some alterations that are outside the scope of what we're trying to do here. If you don't like being spawn-trapped, you can either get a better team together, leave the game, or not play hardcore.  I hate getting spawn trapped, but I'm not going to limit the map choices here because of that.  It's far too easy of a way out of the overarching issue of spawns in general.

            Being honest, the bulk of the #hardcoregamemodes movement has used HC DOM as the flashpoint.  It's really what the majority of players wanted, aside from demolition.  Creating the categories is awesome, but it raises a question: with the creation of these playlists, would it be possible to have the individual game modes that are NEW (demolition, domination, etc.) be selectable individually once the settings are fine-tuned?

            In response to some of the comments I've already seen:
            DON'T turn off friendly fire for CTF.
            DON'T bother with the achievements/leaderboards stuff ... ya it needs to be fixed, but we're finally here so lets not lose it by going OT.
            • 13. Re: #hcflags and #hcbombs - adding more HC game mode variants
              creaper21
              I don't understand why modes have to be removed. There are more than enough players to add modes without removing anything. There is no point in adding new modes if you are just going to take others away in return. But if it has to be done, do it for a while and if they are not popular, reverse the change is what I would do. Isn't Hardcore FFA played the least?
              • 14. Re: #hcflags and #hcbombs - adding more HC game mode variants
                vims1990

                Also: This would be a good chance to experiment with ricochet in one or both. It would have to be all game modes in the moshpit, however. You can't do ricochet in CTF but not some other flag mode in Hardcore Flags, for example.

                We could always do Ricochet but never have. This would takes some extra testing, but would be worth it.



                Hi Vahn,

                As a core player myself who has played a few Ricochet Dom in private matches, I would love to see some game modes which allows ricochet.
                After playing ricochet in private matches, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

                Even if HC players don't agree, that's fine. You guys play alot more HC game modes that I do in public matches.
                • 15. Re: #hcflags and #hcbombs - adding more HC game mode variants
                  Vahn,

                  Ok, the way we saw it was FLAG would have CTF/Domination/HQ and BOMB would have Demo/Sabotage with S&D being separate due to player  interests-that one you tend to love or hate.

                  As far as it goes-this last Sunday was our big HC Domination event and we ran the rooms without a respawn timer. This worked rather well, actually. We toyed with a 2.5 second timer but haven't tested it yet. We're still putting the videos together but we plan to give you links to see how it played out. Feedback has been positive almost uniformly regarding the settings we used. More importantly, about half the people playing were CORE players-and they all said it was something they would love to do again.

                  I personally tried HC DOM on Jungle/Summit/Villa/ and Convoy and saw no reason all of these couldn't be used again. The flow was smooth and the action back and forth.

                  Firing Range had the most lopsided game, IMO, with the first team that grabbed points being almost impossible to dislodge. On the other hand, I did crappy that game so my opinion may be a little biased. But it did seem like a one-sided match despite random team composition.

                  Here's 84 pages of ideas, support etc for #morehardcoregamemodes. Please bear in mind your last commentary on the subject did rub some people the wrong way and a few harsh comments slipped out. That said-it's about the game mode(s), not you, me or any other individual but the community. I think this addition would actually show an increase in HC players with all the CORE types that would come over to the Darkside if it had new modes. 

                  http://community.callofduty.com/thread/100466881

                  Thank you,

                  Cable 99

                  ed.- No Ricochet! You either have the skill to avoid team kills or not. I used to be HORRIBLE about it-but I learned. They can too. Besides, biggest argument against isn't killing-its the flares/concussion. I hit teammate with flare. He catches the edge of it and runs free-and I get it full on in the face. Then I die from (whatever). Complete garbage, IMO. No Ricochet,please!
                  • 16. Re: #hcflags and #hcbombs - adding more HC game mode variants
                    iidarkshadowoo

                    Cheefbird wrote:

                     

                    In response to Spawn killing ... as someone who can do it almost everywhere, this is a non-starter.  For this issue to be addressed, we would need to address spawning altogether, which I assume would require some alterations that are outside the scope of what we're trying to do here. If you don't like being spawn-trapped, you can either get a better team together, leave the game, or not play hardcore.  I hate getting spawn trapped, but I'm not going to limit the map choices here because of that.  It's far too easy of a way out of the overarching issue of spawns in general.



                    I certainly don't have a personal issue with spawn killing. Heck...I don't think I've ever been in a game where I've been spawn trapped. I would say a good 95% of the games I'm in, there is no fear of a loss. I'm considering the receiving end though. Once we get our mojo getting, getting out of a spawn trap isn't so easy. For Demolition, adding more spawns doesn't seem like it would matter. The spawns are there, there are many spawn points all over the the map, but the thing is, for Demolition at least, they can only spawn in one general area (the back of the map). It would be unbalanced if enemy players can pop up in the middle or randomly in the map; they would have a better advantage at planting. Sure, in theory, you can spawn trap on any map, but I could imagine you can break out in many maps; I just don't see that happening in maps like Havana or Firing Range though. Honestly, it could take just one minute for a team of mine to hold down the enemy for the rest of the game in Firing Range. I just think this is a great chance to get these maps out of rotation just for Demo. Just my two cents, maybe Vahn can shed some light on this issue...maybe the spawns can be fixed somehow to prevent this?
                    • 17. Re: Questions I have
                      velezrenzo

                      Vahn wrote:

                       

                      Forgot a few things because I was in a hurry (as usual).

                      Are you willing to give up ANY of the current hardcore game modes? I dislike adding and prefer to replace. Search and TDM are the most popular and are sacred, but even HQ has 10,000 players on Xbox right now. It's way better on us if we can replace two we have rather than just add (for technical reasons that I'm not going to get into right now).

                      Also: This would be a good chance to experiment with ricochet in one or both. It would have to be all game modes in the moshpit, however. You can't do ricochet in CTF but not some other flag mode in Hardcore Flags, for example.

                      We could always do Ricochet but never have. This would takes some extra testing, but would be worth it.

                      I am kinda liking the idea of saying this is Hardcore > Ricochet Flags and Hardcore > Richochet Bombs but I'm not attached to it.

                      David 'Vahn' Vonderhaar



                      Replace Hc HQ and Hc FFA.

                      FFA is almost like TDM.

                      So that way you will have
                      Hc TDM for those people who like to get kills or beginners.
                      Hc S&D for the veteran players who like bomb the objetive.
                      Hc CTF for those who like to flag objetive.
                      Hc Flags for all hardcore gamers who like to play all flags objetives modes.
                      Hc Bombs for all hardcore gamers who like to play all bomb objetives modes.
                      • 18. Re: #hcflags and #hcbombs - adding more HC game mode variants
                        Sounds great Vahn! Quick question, would these be coming to the Wii as well?
                        • 19. Re: Questions I have

                          VelezRenzo wrote:

                           

                          Vahn wrote:

                           

                          Forgot a few things because I was in a hurry (as usual).

                          Are you willing to give up ANY of the current hardcore game modes? I dislike adding and prefer to replace. Search and TDM are the most popular and are sacred, but even HQ has 10,000 players on Xbox right now. It's way better on us if we can replace two we have rather than just add (for technical reasons that I'm not going to get into right now).

                          Also: This would be a good chance to experiment with ricochet in one or both. It would have to be all game modes in the moshpit, however. You can't do ricochet in CTF but not some other flag mode in Hardcore Flags, for example.

                          We could always do Ricochet but never have. This would takes some extra testing, but would be worth it.

                          I am kinda liking the idea of saying this is Hardcore > Ricochet Flags and Hardcore > Richochet Bombs but I'm not attached to it.

                          David 'Vahn' Vonderhaar



                          Replace Hc HQ and Hc FFA.

                          FFA is almost like TDM.

                          So that way you will have
                          Hc TDM for those people who like to get kills or beginners.
                          Hc S&D for the veteran players who like bomb the objetive.
                          Hc CTF for those who like to flag objetive.
                          Hc Flags for all hardcore gamers who like to play all flags objetives modes.
                          Hc Bombs for all hardcore gamers who like to play all bomb objetives modes.



                          I could get behind this with one change-Instead of HC CTF standing alone, make it Domination.
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