20 Replies Latest reply: Apr 25, 2012 3:23 PM by luckeeeluciano RSS

    Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two synergistically causing the "lag" problem?

      This question is for Macc or someone who knows.  Black Ops and Mw3 are running on a 60 FPS net code and I am thinking this coupled with interpolation and UDP packets being somewhat unreliable are working together to cause the "lag/sync" issues that seem to be inherent in these releases.  I remember that Macc said there is a lot more traffic with these titles, in comparison to the older releases, and I am wondering if the extra traffic and lost packets are causing too much interpolation and therefore inaccurate game play to the level we are experiencing.

        • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two cynergistically causing the "lag" problem?
          starbuckfrack

          Faster gameplay will increase the chances of WTF moments due to the code has to be even more perfect than ever before.

           

          In my opinion the appearance of these "lag issues" are that PLUS the fact that too many people still stared at the imperfections in theater mode. Which has been said over 16 months ago that it was not a forensics tool.

           

          To me After playing MW2, MW3 and Blops religiously there really isnt that much of a difference in the amount of all overall WTF moments.Two weeks ago I was whining about MW2 but that was because I wasnt used to that faster gameplay and after a week it slowed down to where you can see the similarities.

           

          (oh, and bump)

            • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two cynergistically causing the "lag" problem?

              Thanks Frack for the comment and bump.  Was Mw2 a 60 fps game also?  I never use theater.  I know all about how unreliable that can be for anything more than entertainment.  The reason I bring this up is because I watched the vid that Macc and Cap made and started me thinking about the interpolation thing and then one thing led to another and I brought this up to some PC gamer friends and they say the fps affects their games more than anything and if they don't have things set up properly, then they get a lot of wtf moments.  Thought Macc or someone could shed some light on whether all these ingredients put into one pot was contributing to so many issues with these two (maybe 3) titles.  I will say that I didn't notice as many issues with MW2 as I have with these last two.  I will say that 3A did seem to smooth some of it out for Black Ops.  MW3 just hasn't got much better for me and yesterday was just a mess for me online.

              • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two cynergistically causing the "lag" problem?

                starbuckfrack wrote:

                 

                Faster gameplay will increase the chances of WTF moments due to the code has to be even more perfect than ever before.

                 

                In my opinion the appearance of these "lag issues" are that PLUS the fact that too many people still stared at the imperfections in theater mode. Which has been said over 16 months ago that it was not a forensics tool.

                 

                To me After playing MW2, MW3 and Blops religiously there really isnt that much of a difference in the amount of all overall WTF moments.Two weeks ago I was whining about MW2 but that was because I wasnt used to that faster gameplay and after a week it slowed down to where you can see the similarities.

                 

                (oh, and bump)

                Ghandi recently said in one of his posts that players viewing theater mode were getting a glimpse of what the server was seeing that they had never been able to see in previous titles.  People shooting before they round a corner or shooting a person with half a clip before they die isn't a doe eyed reaction to being crappy at a game.  Lots of MW3 players are genuinly experiencing near constant WTF moments when playing and it sure as hell isn't because of a poor connection.

              • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two cynergistically causing the "lag" problem?
                starbuckfrack

                Besides my opinion above, I think that the only thing is that this is right now the most popular COD at the moment. Next time it will be the next game , etc, etc.

                 

                I agree with some things in Capps video, but with the "scientist" in me I woud have to see others views in the same game. Very likely ALL of them to get a real good judgement of what is going on. Now I am not saying Capps video was twisted to show his point, just somewhat incomplete.

                 

                I THINK Capp dod say something basically agreeing with what I said above. But its been a while.

                 

                But as I said though that is my opinion.

                 

                As well as the though processes of the mind are also considered in my opinion too. Just like when you see a robbery. most people will recall a lot of differeneces the longer that time goes by and even some people with good memory will still corrupt what they saw originally in a robbery over time.

                 

                Thats what I honestly think when seeing these posts. People forget some of the things they remember about those games until they play it for a while. Some people wil pretend to play the old one and claim that it wasnt the same as this as well.

                 

                When I go back and play MW2 for an hour "the game plays alot smoother than this one". But after a few days all the things are clearer to me that it is just the same.

                 

                I am sorry but my thought are all jumbled. As well as I cant rmember what exactly Macc and Capp said before. So that is while I just bumped this up with my opinions.

                 

                In all the 3 games I still play, especially the past month I rell dont remmber a difference in either one. Sure sometimes when I jump the console online for gaming I get some pretty bad lobbies but then I just leave, rebbot, take a break ,whatever. To me honestly there is about a 2 percent WTF set of moments with this game as well as some games where our team just plain old gets our butts kicked for no real reason whatsover.

                 

                ----------------------

                 

                Yeah for the most this one and others run at 60 FPS. I do remember them saying that (I think) they said this one runs solidly at 60 FPS. I do remember IW saying this game uses less bandwidth as the other CODs before it came out.

                 

                But you do have to remember that ALL games run at 60 FPS in the processing but doesnt mean they DRAW them at 60 FPS. Which I assume you are aware of with that title.

                 

                I think the good thing for BF3 is that I believe it draws at 30 and I think it RUNS at 30 FPS too. I also used to think it would be noticable on the Xbox but its not.

                 

                hope that helps. I am going to favorite this one cause I like hearing all this technical crap. (I mean stuff )

                  • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two cynergistically causing the "lag" problem?

                    Lolz.  I like hearing the tech "crap" too.  Thnx for the input.  I agree with you that one would have to see the same event from all point of views involved.  I have had a few of those moments happen by chance where I will watch my team mate die in what looked like a totally legit manner only to hear him say that the guy wasn't even looking at him on his screen.  This has also happened to me at one point where I had a guy shoot me dead while facing the other way and one of the players in my party happened to be near by and saw the kill and said that on his screen the opp player was facing me. 

                     

                    I do like you do...if I find myself in a lobby that is not playing well, I just back out and find another one.  I do find some fair lobby's and then the game is indeed fun to play.

                     

                    I do hope to hear from Macc seeing as he brought up interpolation and did not go terribly in depth about it on the vid.  Perhaps he could expound on it here.

                  • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two cynergistically causing the "lag" problem?
                    starbuckfrack

                    Oh yeah, THIS definition helps people know those big words.

                     

                    syn·er·gis·tic  (snr-jstk)

                    adj.

                    1. Of or relating to synergy: a synergistic effect.

                    2. Producing or capable of producing synergy: synergistic drugs.

                    3. Christianity  Of or relating to synergism.

                     

                     

                    • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two synergistically causing the "lag" problem?
                      greencoffin72

                      Good discussion here, guys.  It's too bad most people can't keep up with y'all.

                       

                       

                      I can say that connection to other players seems to be affected most, leading to more WTF moments.  The more people playing and online would most likely cause more issues.  Synonymous to pharmaceuticals, the more people use a drug the more side effects we see.

                      • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two synergistically causing the "lag" problem?

                        No idea what the hell any of that means. I just know that every time I die in a gunfight it's with what appears to be one bullet. Then if you watch their character move after they kill you, it seems like they're being fast forwarded, moving about twice as fast as normal speed.

                        • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two synergistically causing the "lag" problem?

                          This game has a lot less traffic than Black Ops both up and down stream. All I know is the temporary slowdowns are disgusting when things heat up in multiplayer. I know the framerate is locked at 60 but the crappy Xbox just coughs and wheezes with the barely noticable "visual improvements" by Fake IW and Sledgehammer. MW1 and 2 were extremely smooth in comparison. Whether that affects other aspects who knows.

                          I also wonder if the slowdown/chugging is experienced by everyone simultaneously or just locally. It would be interesting to know how the netcode behaves in realigning you (if it needs to at all?) with everyone else once youve experienced the slo-mo moments. I've never bothered to look at the game countdown timer to see if also slows. It always the same though, midway into a game when KSR's are out the game chugs and suddenly people are even harder to kill than before. Another thread talked of this effect but nobody knew why it happens.I'm a little suspicious it has something to do with the slo-mo moments. Oh well, broken game is broken.

                          • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two synergistically causing the "lag" problem?

                            Interesting you have noticed this as well, dropped packets in large numbers which varies by lobby, absolutely this is not the cause of lag, it is a cause for sync issues within the game, what you send/recieve is slower AND not at all, 2 out of 5 packets are dropped on average.

                             

                            I have monitored this issue closely ( monitor your ip on your xbox on all ports and see the interesting results for others )

                             

                            Is it as you sugges? Is it lag comp causing the issue of packets being dropped? or is the game engine simply broken. Lag comp seems to be the culprit, as with adding latency to a connection, the idea is to return the packets at a slower rate equal to the ping value for the lobby, indeed this happens, the packets are returned at a slower rate, equally and not at all.

                             

                            I sent this information two months ago to the devs including the logs monitoring the connection and as host, showing the large amounts of packets being dropped during games, the reply i got back, was they will pass the message along.

                             

                            Equally what is important to remember, is if we see the large amounts of packets dropped on our end, they also do on theirs, thus why every update never fixes the problem, simply offers a different version of it.

                             

                            I anticipate in the next update they will have considered looking at this prior to playing with match making, imho it seems essential to resolve this issue before even considering any other changes. When the next "miracle" update is released, i will test once again to see if they have addressed the issue, until they do, we will simply have the same problem, only a different version of it to experience.

                             

                            - Cheers! 

                              • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two synergistically causing the "lag" problem?

                                This begs the question...why are there so many more dropped packets with this game?

                                 

                                Curious as to why Macc has not responded to this thread.  Interpolation was his baby that he threw out there.

                                • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two synergistically causing the "lag" problem?
                                  gallp13

                                  Good post have been discussing same issue on tech forum.

                                   

                                  IW staff acknowledge the issue of packet loss and its relationship with lag and mid game server drops.

                                   

                                  I am pleased they agreed to take the matter on board and are currently reviewing this issue.

                                   

                                  I would assume my little chuck of discussion is in the pot with that of the rest of the Community and is one angle that is currently under consideration for the next TU.

                                   

                                  In order to get to this point in discussions I had to jump through many hoops and months of too and fro as these issues (lag and server drops) have plagued me since release day.

                                   

                                  This experience has demonstrated two things;

                                   

                                  1. The IW and Activision support people I have spoken to are top notch and are trying hard to help me have the best gaming experience possible. I am very grateful and appreciative

                                   

                                  2. This is a biabolical problem. No one not has all of the answers and a fix is very difficult and elusive.

                                   

                                  What ever this solution, it needs to accommodate the fact that I and most Community members have sessions where the game performance very well and days where the game performs well below par.

                                   

                                  While I am hopeful one cause of poor quality game performance may have been identified, I will not be at all happy if in addressing this aspect of the problem the quality of play for our 30,000,000 strong Community degrades any further.

                                   

                                  I'm sure all who have contributed to or been following this thread would agree, the next TU will make or break many reputations.

                                    • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two synergistically causing the "lag" problem?

                                      Thanks Gallp.  Interesting to see that others are having some of the same thoughts and suspicions.  I agree with you that it would really suck to see this game degrade any further.  It is close to edge as it is.  I fear that CODchamp may be right (see below comment).  Perhaps, despite the powers that be claims that current xbox is more than capable of handling these games, it is in fact not and they are/were unaware of this.

                                       

                                      Glad to hear that you got some valuable help and were also able to have some give and take convo's with the higher ups.

                                  • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two synergistically causing the "lag" problem?

                                    Also a synergist helps the agonist ( prime mover) in muscle movement. In medial rotation, The Teres Major is the synergist to the latissimus dorsi and deltoid (agonist); when doing a push up. GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME BOYS !

                                    • Re: Interpolation and Frame Rate, are these two synergistically causing the "lag" problem?
                                      codchamp

                                      I did not read the response in here. But i will say yes. I just gave my reasoning in another thread about something like this. Until we have a new xbox and a new MP engine for COD. You will not see better connections in the COD series.