42 Replies Latest reply on Dec 21, 2012 7:55 PM by PiesShopYoU RSS

    MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

      Alright, so I did one of these threads a while ago, but gave up because the devs didn't care and nobody important was reading the feedback.  Now all of the sudden in the last 2 months it seems like the IW devs care again and Mark Rubin has said multiple times that within the next few weeks they will be doing a weapons and pointstreaks "sweep" - meaning they are going to be tweaking/rebalancing many weapons and pointstreaks.  I'd like to trust them in coming up with truly balanced weapon stats but I can't after MW2's weapon balance and the way MW3's weapon balance still is right now, because I have no idea how any dev ever thought the MP7, ACR 6.8, or Type 95 were at all balanced in any way.  So let's get our community feedback in to help them.  Post your suggestions in this thread about what guns you think are either overpowered or underpowered and include your suggestion for how to make the gun balance, and most importantly state your REASON for why you think your suggested changes would make the gun balanced.  Don't just say "X is OP, because I said so.  Fix it."  Nobody will listen to you.  Don't forget to also tweet your weapon balance suggestions to @IWMarkRubin, @Teanah, and @Candyslexia.


      I've played FPS games for a very long time and I have a very good sense for balance. I often realize that certain things are OP/UP a while before the broader community realizes it and starts begging for nerfs/buffs.  When I take one look at the weapon stats and say "X is going to get nerfed," chances are it really will get nerfed somewhere down the road. I've studied every stat there is to study in MW3 and I know all the numbers behind every gun, perk, and poinstreak like the back of my hand. So I've taken the time to write up a MW3 weapon balance draft, and I've put a ton of thought into it.  Here it is:


      Assault Rifles:


      M4A1: Increase range from 800-1400 to 1000-1500.  This makes it more competitive with the SCAR-L.


      SCAR-L: No change.


      CM901: Increase min damage to 30 (for hardcore), increase range from 800-1900 to 1000-1900.


      AK-47: Increase min damage to 30.


      G36C: No change.


      ACR 6.8:  Reduce mag size from 30 to 20.  Change damage from 45-30 to 35-25 (increase headshot multiplier to 1.5x to retain 2 headshot kill).


      • The ACR is currently the most dominant assault rifle, clearly outclassing all others except the Type 95, which is why it needs so many changes.  Currently it takes the exact same number of bullets to kill as the CM901 and AK-47 (3-4) while ALSO having much less recoil, a higher fire rate, and faster reload, and having almost the same 3-hit-kill range.  With the new damage, it will still take 3-4 shots but have a slightly smaller 3-hit-kill range.  A 20 round mag will make it fit the role of the MW2 SCAR-H: a powerful, low recoil/long range weapon balanced with a moderate fire rate and small magazine.  It will also no longer be a 1 shot kill at all ranges in hardcore, leaving that as a special trait to the AK-47, CM901, and unsilenced M16A4.


      Type 95 option 1: Reduce max damage to 50, change range from 800-2000 to 500-2000 and reduce fire rate to 925 rpm.  Also increase hip-fire spread from 4 - 7 to 5 - 7.  This retains the 2 shot kill potential but the 2 hit kill range is much shorter, and it is no longer a make-shift shotgun with the hip-fire spread.


      Type 95 option 2: Change damage from 55-20 to 49-25 with 800-1500 range and 925 rpm fire rate. Also increase hip-fire spread from 4 - 7 to 5 - 7.


      * Type 95 is a tough one to balance.  Not sure either of these suggestions are that great, but the bottom line is that the Type 95 needs some sort of nerf.


      M16A4: Change damage to a flat 34 across all ranges.  Give the silenced version 34-25 damage with 1000-2000 range (these would be the actual ranges when silenced, not pre-modified ranges).


      Mk14: Slightly increase vertical recoil.


      FAD: Increase range from 800 - 1000 to 1100 - 1300.







      MP5: Reduce horizontal recoil to 65 left, 55 right.


      UMP45: No change.


      PP90M1: Increase horizontal recoil to 75 each direction, increase vertical recoil to 65 also.  Decrease center speed to 1550.  Normalize rapid fire effect to 25% like other SMGs.  Keeps it still extremely dominant in close range, but difficult to use at mid-long range.


      P90: No change.


      PM-9: Reduce visual recoil (not viewkick). Reduce reload time to 1.8 seconds.  Keep rapid fire effect at 33%.  Possibly improve hip-fire from 3 - 5 to 2.5 - 4.5 (may be a bit much).


      MP7: Reduce min damage from 20 to 17, slightly increase vertical recoil from 45 to 50.




      L86 LSW: Reduce min damage from 38 to 30.  It took 1 more bullet at long range than any other LMG pre-patch, it should be the same post-patch to make sure the MG36 and MK46 are still useful.


      All other LMGs: No change.


      Machine Pistols:


      FMG9: Reduce damage from 40-20 to 30-17.  It currently makes the other 3 machine pistols pointless, having the best damage profile, highest RPM, and largest magazine.


      MP9: No change.


      Skorpion: Reduce vertical recoil 15-20%.


      G18: Increase min damage from 17 to 20.


      All machine pistols: Akimbo should GREATLY increase the hip-fire spread on ALL of them, similar to PP2000 akimbo hip-fire in MW2.




      USAS-12: No change.


      AA-12: Increase damage per pellet to 17-8.  Increase starting ammo.


      Spas-12: Increase damage per pellet to 35-15.


      Model 1887: Increase damage per pellet to 40-20.


      Striker: Reduce fire rate to 300 rpm.


      KSG-12: No change.




      Extreme conditioning: 3x sprint instead of 2x.


      Scavenger: always replenish tactical grenades, lethal thrown grenades, and anti-air launchers


      Blast Shield: Increase explosive resistance from 0.55x to 0.35x.


      Assassin: Remove immunities to CUAV and EMP (move those over to Blind Eye Pro) and enable Marksman PRO to see red names above Assassin Pro users.




      Stealth Bomber: Decrease blast radius and damage of bombs


      Strafe Run:  Give all 5 helicopters 1 or 2 flares each, but all 5 should dump flares at the same time (only burns 1 or 2 rockets total).


      Reaper: Decrease number of missiles to 10.


      Attack Helicopter:  Give it 1 flare.


      Pavelow: Add one more flare.


      Recon Juggernaut: Decrease total health.


      Care package: Remove Osprey Gunner and Assault Juggernaut.


      EMP: Reduce duration to 30 sec.


      Ballistic Vests: Lower the health provided in HC modes to something more proportional to starting health.


      Emergency Airdrop: Should not drop EMPs or Recon Juggernauts


      Osprey Gunner: Needs at least 1 more flare, if not 2 more.




      Frag grenades: Increase blast radius and also slightly increase maximum damage to create a bigger lethal range


      *more to come in this section



      I encourage you to leave your own feedback below, but if you don't know the numbers and statistics and variables behind the weapons in MW3 I highly suggest you take a look at the stats and learn them for yourself first so that you can craft better suggestions for the developers.  You can find more statistics than you know what to do with here: http://symthic.com/mw3charts.php and http://denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=323 5. If you actually talk about very specific adjustments to specific variables like I did in my draft, they are more likely to listen to you.  If you think any of my suggestions are too extreme, feel free to say so and if anyone has better ideas than mine (specifically the Type 95) I will updated the OP with your suggestion and give you credit for it.  Also, if you have any questions about any gun, perk, or pointstreak, just ask me.  I bet you anything I know the answer.


      I will be moderating this thread and updating it daily.  ALL posts must obey the following rules, and any that don't will be reported:


      1. Debate is okay, starting a flame war isn't.  If you disagree with someone, then you can state your disagreement in a mature, respectful, and intelligent manner.  Anything along the lines of "No, this gun is fine and shouldn't be nerfed because you just suck and you need to get better and stop crying" will be reported without question.  You think someone has a bad suggestion? Come back with a better suggestion, referencing the real weapon statistics (not the ones you pull out of your arse) and explaining WHY you believe your suggested changes to the weapon's statistics make better sense.  Got it?  If you don't, too bad.


      2.  Leave skill OUT of the debate.  Skill has NOTHING to do with weapon balance. At all.  If you think it does, you don't even understand the concept of weapon balance in the first place.  Weapons are balanced in an attempted to make your score accurately represent your skill level, not make up for your lack of it.  Two players with the same skill level playing with the same play style should not have drastically different scores because one of them uses an ACR and the other uses an M4A1.  Guns should be statistically equivalent with each other so that a player can choose essentially any weapon in the game and get about the same score, with the only thing affecting his score being his skill level, not his gun selection.  If one gun is always the superior choice because it gives you better scores, what is the point of having any of the others in the game at all?

        • Test #1
          Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

          For the name showing for assassin you should have marksman pro for the name to show. There is my 2 cents

          Last Edited: Jul 4, 2012 1:43 PM
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            Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

            Assassin is and always will be the most contested point. I would like to see reduced recoil for the skorpion and g18, I don't really see the point of increasing the reaper by 1 point, its fine at 9.

            Last Edited: Jul 4, 2012 2:20 PM
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              Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

              The pm9 would be the new top smg if recoil was reduced.


              I don't think shotguns need more damage and definatley a no to improving the sprint speed.

              A shotgunner with extreme conditioning on is pretty beast at the moment I couldn't handle them getting more faster and powerful.


              The type 95 is ok as it is


              The acr just needs more recoil a smaller clip won't stop people using. It will just be extended mags silencer combo.


              Scavenger what you said sounds good but if it replenishes tactical then blast shield needs to block flash bangs more.

              I use scavenger on all my classes and would love to be spamming flash bangs lol but they are very powerful.


              I think stealth bomber, remote sentry, juggernaut, and osprey should be moved to assault or deleted.


              Uav cuav should be moved to support. Uav should start at 6 points. These are free streaks so they shouldn't be so easy. It will stop spy plane spamming. Also make it so you either have uav or cuav equipped.


              No points should be gained for taking out air support.


              Osprey gunner should have 4 flares



              The support stuff needs to peak higher say 25 kills for the highest think. Highest streak should be the emp.



              Leave the reaper at 8 it's quite map dependent

              Last Edited: Jul 4, 2012 2:25 PM
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                Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                Sorry leave reaper at 9


                I want it to be clear that no support will gain a player an actual kill. So players need to choose to either have uavs cuavs Sam turrets emp recon drone ect or go the assault package way but not have access to the uavs

                Last Edited: Jul 4, 2012 2:29 PM
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                  Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                  Updated the OP with some feedback.

                  Last Edited: Jul 4, 2012 4:12 PM
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                      Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                      not sure why you are beating up the reaper, it really is fine. It shines on certain maps, and it downright sucks on others. It has a flare, its hard to shoot down with bullets unless you're directly underneath it, its balanced. I'm also worried about the effect a reduced recoil to the PM-9 would have on the entire game, it would all of a sudden be a faster shooting mp7.

                      Last Edited: Jul 4, 2012 4:29 PM
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                          Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                          "It has a flare, its hard to shoot down with bullets" - exactly.  That, combined with 14 deadly missles for only a 9 pointstreak, is a little bit much, and makse the Strafe Run and AH-6 kinda obsolete.  It just needs a little nerf in some way, whether that be less rockets or taking away its flare.


                          As for the PM-9, it has the highest recoil of any primary gun in the whole game (excluding Rapid Fire LMGs).  And I'm not talking about a huge recoil reduction, just a moderate one to make it useable.  It has two different kinds of recoil, combined.  1. Viewkick (your whole screen/point-of-view bouncing aorund) and 2. Gunkick (the gun itself jumping around your screen).  I'm only talking about reducing Gunkick and leaving Viewkick alone, so you can actually see what you are aiming it.  It would still be the highest recoil SMG.

                          Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 9:43 PM
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                        Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                        https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsDApCFwdkwfdFJvLUtNXzVaVGQwZXMwMV9 UOGg0cHc#gid=3

                        (check the corner of some squares to see some comments)

                        M4 would be ok with a small range increase, but saying it's not competitive against the SCAR-L is pure bs. It is better at close and at long ranges (smaller ttk, more accurate)


                        All SMGs bar the MP5, UMP45 and PM9 are 4hk at close range. Some get a range buff. MP7 has less sway to fit long range business.


                        FAD walks faster (95% speed), has smaller hipspread (between AR and SMG accuracy) and walks faster when aiming (60%, between AR and SMG)


                        Regarding Akimbo, it gets a 1.4x increase when moving, so a 5 spreads become a 7 spread, for example. Currently, unless crouched/prone, there is no change in spread if you're walking or standing.

                        Last Edited: Jul 4, 2012 6:33 PM
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                          Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                             I dont have any issues with your suggestions really, but at the same time I dont think it's necessary to change any of it either.

                              I think part of the enjoyment of any game is to just be able to do your best with what is given. Things like the model needing a buff are a good example. Sure. its a tough weapon to use. But thats what makes it a fun weapon to use. Its a good feeling to master a tough weapon. If you want an easy weapon, you have plenty of choices.



                              Personally, I'd rather not bug the devs with such pointless requests. I'd much rather them putting time in making things work the way they are supposed to than changing them just because I dont like the way they are supposed to be.

                          Last Edited: Jul 4, 2012 8:39 PM
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                            Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                            If they make half the smgs a 4 hit kill cqb like in that chart above, I would personally want to strangle the weapon balance team. That doesn’t work, nobody uses the P shooters in blops for a season & they generally have the best accurate & fire rate stats of smgs too in that game, only way to balance them better is to give them more recoil or reduce the fire rate a bit. I agree with the machine pistol changes and making the spread akimbo as big as that of the pp2000 in mw2 would be a big plus. The single mp9 is a bigger problem than the single fmg9 since its recoil is just bad, the mp9 is better than quite a few primary smgs as it’s now single. These machine pistol chances would see overkill actually getting used and see pistols picked above machine pistols more often. Shotguns would be better balanced cqb with balanced machine pistols akimbo and balanced machine pistols in general.


                            I disagree with the Ops Marksman buff, it shouldn’t become the perk everybody uses. It should have a counter. Assassin would be less of a problem if they removed crap like marksman instead. This perk alone forces me to use assassin, make it like scout in blops a perk mainly for snipers, but don’t make it light up everybody, getting kills long range should be about skill, same with spotting people, I find marksman more than annoying as it’s let alone without a counter.


                            I would only make the portable radar count for the man using it and reduce the range of it or just remove it completely as well, while making support streaks harder to get (less uav spam = less assassin). Then fine make cuav work against people without the specialist bonus, but as it is getting a cuav is very easy thus it should have a counter next to shooting it down. This obviously all won't happen, so don't touch assassin, as it will only make support and all that crap easier to abuse.


                            I would also make uavs easier viewable with blind eye after say 7.5 seconds. Oh and remove the heartbeat sensor, bs free mini radar that forces people to use assassin yet again. Assassin is fine, it’s multi-functional but most the things it counters is complete bs, either very easy to spam constantly or very easy to abuse, forcing people to use assassin to move around. Nerf / alter those things instead of assassin, would make the game more gun skill based & would see less need for assassin altogether.


                            Gun buffs I would like to see;


                            Pm9 adsed recoil pattern reduced (but not a lot)

                            Ump45 Less recoil or a 5 hit kill instead of 6 beyond it max damage range

                            Mp5 back to cod4 standards

                            Ak47 back to mw2 standards

                            M16 back to mw2 standards

                            Ops shotgun buffs would be fine, but only make the spas do 36 damage cqb. 35 Doesn’t make it a 2 hit kill cqb with damage. I would give shotguns 3 damage stats actually, cqb first 6 meters, then their current damage stats and then their current marshmallows stats on range. They should only kill in 2 pellets cqb with damage. Range would mean getting a 3 pellet kill up to 7.5 meters (without range 6), then back to their current damage stats. Otherwise everybody would be picking range to get constant 3-pellet ohks well beyond cqb range, which is stupid on what should be cqb oriented guns, especially since their range now is fine without range, their constancy cqb needs improving. I would also give all shotguns a 4 spread adsed, smg movement speed adsed and the sprint increase the usas-12 now only gets (as shotgunners need to oriented themselves cqb). I agree with your perk buffs, bar for the changes to blind eye / assassin.


                            Nerfs / rebalance;


                            ACR and MP7, some upper kick added (same kick the mp7 gets with RF on), no damage reductions please, don't make great guns piss takes. The pp90 is fine, only alter the RF attachment.


                            Barrett 50 cal fire rate cap (similar to the as50). Qsing > give snipers the millisecond black animation back from mw2 / black ops and force them to be fully ads before shooting to be accurate (which is then actually just 0.2 with qdraw, making qsing a bit more about timing), I would then buff the damage bolt actions do slightly to see more ohk constancy (make impact actually do something like FMJ in mw2) and add upper chest ohk multipliers for the dragunov..


                            T95 has like a fire rate of 333 per minute now with rf (it’s nowhere near 1000 plus like the guide says, I think that's fully auto), if they are to rebalance it only make the damage 49-25. More constant on range and less annoying / more accuracy based for one burst kills cqb to mid range. They should Increase its max damage range if they remove its 2-hit insta-killing ability instead of reducing it, it should be a mid to long range weapon after all.

                            Last Edited: Jul 4, 2012 10:01 PM
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                                Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                They sucked in Blops, that's a given, but they're much, much better in MW3. They have series of advantages. P90 = Huge Mag, controllable recoil. PP90M1 = Fires really fast. MP7 = Very, very controllable recoil. Also, more bullets to kill = less spraying from the hip like a noob.


                                P90 in MW2 = 4-5hk

                                Vector (PP90M1) in MW2 = 4-5hk

                                UMP45 in MW2 = 3hk (heavily nerfed in MW3, 3-6hk)

                                MP5 in MW2 = 3-5hk.


                                Can't say this never worked before. With a standard 30 mag (or more), 80% ads walking speed, smaller hipspread and full walking speed, the SMGs would still be the best at close range. Can't forget there is Ext. Mags + Rapid Fire easily available in MW3. And Range.


                                A 4-6hk MP7 with a huge 4hk zone (as I made) would still be better than many ARs, since you can strafe like crazy. Add a reduced sway in this and it's still really good at long ranges. It would continue to be a good weapon.


                                The MP5 and the UMP45 would be simply the best at cqc. Since the UMP possesses a slow fire rate, it would be better than the MP5 by a little bit, and more accurate at longer ranges. Therefore, to not let it outclass the MP5, make it have a 6hk at range. The MP5 sucks at long range anyway.

                                Last Edited: Jul 4, 2012 11:26 PM
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                                    Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                    Well not many people used smgs in mw2 at all next to the ump and all those guns could have added SP multipliers killing in 1 or 2 bullets less. Range is hardly great on the pp90 or mp7. Their max damage range is poor as it’s. Range just makes it a somewhat better, which it should do & you need to give up kick for it or focus. It’s well balanced. Competitive players generally use silencers, meaning their max damage ranges are very poor compared to ars silenced. They need range. Making them a 4 bullet kill in their zone is complete nonsense, they are primaries. RF is needed on most to make them significantly better in their cqb zone than ARs (which they should be) and most smgs are hard to control without Kick on when using RF. Let's not forget that Stalker limits the advantages smgs should have on ars too in this game.


                                    Give me 10 elite pages with people that have significantly Higher smg kds than fully auto AR kds in mw3. Silenced fully auto ars are still the go-to class in this game. By far. Smg / ar balance is fine in mw3, thank God it’s not Blops where it’s all about the fully auto ars and ak74u and mp5k to a lesser extent.


                                    The only smg and Ar that could need some actual rebalancing are the mp7 and acr (more upper kick like I said). What they actually need to do is buff the average smgs and ars aka the mp5, ump, Pm9, m16, cm901 & ak47 & rebalance machine pistol secondaries like your chart did.


                                    Shotguns only really need a buff cqb (mainly the model, spas and aa-12). Other than that they need better ads accuracy (rewarding good aim more), faster movement speed adsed (like they had in past games) and the sprint increase the usas-12 gets.

                                    Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 1:19 AM
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                                        Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                        When I'm playing with a SMG, I get a lot more advantages over AR users. They get: Grenade Launcher (suck in this game), Masterkey (always sucked), Heartbeat Sensor (the most useful).


                                        I get extended sprint, faster walking time, smaller hipspread, faster ADS time, faster movement.


                                        The PP90M1 range (600) is 15 meters. It will kill in that range in three bullets. 19 meters with Range. And then, you got Rapid Fire. If you think the recoil is uncontrollable, you haven't mastered it's recoil. Frankly, it's pretty low. It's like the Vector, faster firerate and good accuracy, in return of low damage. But... that's not the case. It gets ridiculously high damage. 42.


                                        Pretending 4hk smgs never worked before is ridiculous. They were always there, and then they made the mistake to buff them. MW3 maps are even more SMG friendly than every other CoD game, and that's where the problems began.


                                        Know what happened in games where there was 4hk smgs? They were balanced. Shotguns had their turn, for example.


                                        Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 10:45 AM
                                          • Test #1
                                            Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                            Like blops? lol. In mw2, Sp was a given. They were never a 4 hit kill there with SP cqb, much like the shotties were better in that game with SP. The pp90 also does 17 damage on range. and like said good players use silencers. If you're not good head on you will suck with smgs. Ars are much easier to patroll with and get kills with silenced mid range and they kill much faster generally mid to long range. All those "perks" smgs get are next to irrelevant with perks like stalker and qdraw, especially when an ar user has good positioning, pick 100 random players. Most will do better with auto ars. Yet smgs need a nerf? No fckin way.

                                            Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 12:44 PM
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                                                Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                So what's the problem? In my chart, I'm giving many advantages, such as increased min damage, reduced sway, increased centerspeed, increased range, decreased recoil numbers... With silencer, it would be better at medium range than it is now. And in CoD4, despite having SP, there was Juggs to counter it... and still, people didn't complained about OP/UP smgs.


                                                Could you be kind enough to tell me what advantages the MP5 had over other SMGs since CoD4? Hint: If the answer is not "Kill in less bullets in cqc", it is wrong.

                                                Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 2:11 PM
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                                        Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                        I disagree with all your nerfs because that will not balance a game out especially if your buffing other guns and killstreaks it will make everything that got buffed overpowered what they need to do is buff any gun that can't compete with over powered guns. The reason why MW2 guns were so balanced is because they were all powerful in their own little way either accuracy or fire rate or damage or even the amount of ammo in it's clip. They shouldn't nerf anything what so ever instead they should buff any gun that can't compete with the powerful guns meaning if a gun can't compete with the powerful primaries and the gun itself is a primary then they should buff it same with the secondaries buff a secondary if it can't compete with the other secondaries.  Nerfing hasn't worked in the past and definitely won't work now so instead of nerfing anything they need to just buff the guns that can't compete with the others.

                                        Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 12:46 AM
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                                            Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                            As for the killstreaks if they have the power to do this change then here is my idea switch the Stealth Bomber with the Strafe Run and buff the remote sentry gun then switch it with the sentry gun then add the Chopper Gunner to the assault killstreaks at 16 kills and 3 flares then switch the osprey gunner with the escort airdrop then switch their flight patterns so that way anyone using support won't be able to take all the care packages instead they are guarding their teamates while they are taking the care packages and the escort airdrop needs the AI of the Pavelow if they can't do this well don't do anything with the killstreaks at all.

                                            Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 1:00 AM
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                                            Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                            I disagree with ALOT of these. UMP no change? It kills in 6 shots at max range for no reason. ACR mag size to 20? Not going to happen. Striker shooting at 300 RPM? It is already fairly weak after the other nerfs. Nerf the support Jugg? Not a fan of that idea.


                                            G18 and skorpion just need their akimbo nerfs removed. The nerf that you would give to the FMG9 would make it horrible. Nerfing the L86 would be the lazy way to balance LMGs. The L86 overall is a very balanced weapon. The other LMGs need to be given some sort of niches. Like 49-40 damage for the PKP with a 1.1x torso multiplier. MP5 needs a little more range or it will still be outclassed by the P90. And can go on but I don't feel like writing anymore right now,

                                            Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 11:00 AM
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                                                Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                Whoever suggests a buff to the PKP that will make it a 2hk at close ranges, is seriously forgetting about the M60 and it's role.

                                                Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 11:15 AM
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                                                  Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                  Akimbo weapons don't need to be stronger. Any of them.  The FMG9 would not be horrible, it still has a huge 36 round mag and the highest RoF of all machine pistols, second highest overall only just slower than the PM-9.  The UMP is a monster.  It takes 6 shots at range because it has the longest 3-hit-kill range of all SMGs and has very controllable recoil.  And what is wrong with making the L86 take one more shot at extreme ranges?  It always took one more shot than all other LMGs at long range before the LMG buff.  It currently makes the MK46 and MG36 pointless.  And the ACR mag size to 20 is the perfect nerf for that gun.  If you dont like that idea you are probably upset you wouldn't be able to lean on it as a crutch anymore, because I don't know how you can't see that the ACR is blatantly OP.


                                                  The one thing I will agree on is the MP5.  Could use a range buff, but then it is beginning to infringe on the UMP's niche.  So the UMP's range would have to be increased also, and it's already pretty huge for an SMG.  I'd rather just see the MP5 recoil reduced to be less than the P90s.

                                                  Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 6:07 PM
                                                    • Test #1
                                                      Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                      You don't think the G18 akimbo needs to be un-nerfed? It already suffers from low mag size, low range and damage, and high recoil. I never remember anyone saying the G18 akimbo was OP. The UMP gets low minimun damage and low RoF for only around a 15% higher range then the P90. I see now reason why the UMP should take six shots to kill at max range while the MP7 and P90 take only five shots. It was complained about in mw2 and they over-nerfed it in mw3 to avoid critism. It could also use slightly more range. The L86 is not OP when compared to all the weapons in the game. The other LMGs should be brought up to it instead of it being brought down to the others.


                                                      As for the ACR, it was not that I disagree about decreasing its mag size, but its just something I just can't realistically see the devs doing. And I really disagree about nerfing either of the juggs. The assualt juggernaut could really use a buff. Many of the explosives could also use a buff. Just the other OP things in mw2 like shotguns, UMP and M16, the over nerfed explosives to avoid critism.

                                                      Last Edited: Jul 15, 2012 5:53 AM
                                                  • Test #1
                                                    Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                    Just to kind of break up the discussion about weapons and such... Does anyone else feel that this whole C4 Grenading thing is getting a bit ridiculous? We have Semtex and Frags, and yet neither of them are useful as grenades, but C4 is... which is why so many people take C4 and use it like a grenade.


                                                    I honestly wouldn't mind seeing C4 changed so that it has to be "placed", or have a reduced throwing distance. Let it have enough distance that it can stick to a roof, but not enough that you can throw it as far as people do.


                                                    Hell, in exchange, I would even suggest buffing Frags a little bit so that they have a slightly larger lethal range. After buffing Frags, let's buff Blast Shield so that it serves a purpose as a counter.

                                                    Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 2:34 PM
                                                      • Test #1
                                                        Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                        kastro187420 wrote:


                                                        Hell, in exchange, I would even suggest buffing Frags a little bit so that they have a slightly larger lethal range. After buffing Frags, let's buff Blast Shield so that it serves a purpose as a counter.


                                                        I really really like this idea.  Totally forgot about frags, probably because as you suggested there is no reason to use them when Semtex do the same damage and radius, so I never use them.  Adding this to the OP.

                                                        Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 6:03 PM
                                                      • Test #1
                                                        Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                        I don't think anything should be nerfed.

                                                        Last Edited: Jul 5, 2012 6:08 PM
                                                        • Test #1
                                                          Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                          To reduce the ACR's clip size would be ridiculous. Sure its over powered, but the real gun holds 30 bullets. To take that away would reduce the realism of the guns power

                                                          Last Edited: Jul 10, 2012 7:10 PM
                                                          • Test #1
                                                            Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                            I noticed how you thought the air ksr needed more flares. that is not true ksr should not be too hard to shoot down. there are not meant to be gurantees for kills no matter how many kills you had to get for them. they are at best a chance to get kills and that is all they should be.


                                                            You also do not want care packages to drop the high end ksr or psr this just proves that you do not feel it is fair that someone can have a chance of having them with out having to earn them the normal way. The whole point of the care package is to give players that random chance to get ANY ksr/psr in the game. To remove one or two from what it can drop would just be ridiculous for them to do.


                                                            These wo suggestions you made make it where you are trying to put more emphasis on skill and gun play even when you said leave skill out of the debate.


                                                            A fair or balanced ksr/psr would not be to remove antying from the care package just because some do not like that a noob or somone that was not being a tryhard could get a high end ksr/psr in the game.


                                                            I can agree thought that the emp is too long, should be 30 seconds and not cause the emp affect to your own team. Plus I think they need a cool down time that after one is called in another can not be called for at least 30 seconds, to prevent emp chaining.

                                                            Last Edited: Jul 15, 2012 3:53 PM
                                                              • Test #1
                                                                Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                                WTF are you talking about? "The whole point of the care package is to give players that random chance to get ANY ksr/psr in the game."  What your saying is that the point of the care package is to be a crutch for bad players to get a cheap advantage.  Which is true.  Last time I checked, anytime there is a crutch in something that is supposed to a balanced, fair, competitive multiplayer experience, that's a bad thing, and it usually makes it NOT a competitive multiplayer experience.


                                                                I would be fine with the charity package yeilding any possible KSR if it required a 6 killstreak.  4 is just pure bullsh*t, because charity packages don't even drop ammo anymore.  So literally the ONLY thing you can get that takes less kills that the charity package is a UAV.  Everything else is basically an unfair shortcut.  There honestly should be about a 50% chance that the charity package yields a ksr lower than the charity package, and a 50% chance that it yields something higher.  An Osprey Gunner can cripple an enemy team and it's extremely hard to obtain, as it should be.  Why should some scrub with hardline be able to cripple an entire enemy team just because he got a free dom flag at the beginning of the game, destroyed a SAM Turret, and got 2 assists?  Assault Juggs can also dominate an enemy team, and AC-130s/Pavelows can do some hefty damage as well.  With Ospreys, Juggs, AC-130s, and Pavelows, I think 6 or 7 kills is fair for a care package.  But IW is not going to change the amount of kills required, so I'll settle for removing any ksr above 12 from the charity package.

                                                                Last Edited: Jul 16, 2012 3:26 PM
                                                                  • Test #1
                                                                    Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                                    The OG is nothing in this game. It is not really that good. I laugh every time someone gets one, since I use BE and AS so I just keep moving with out caring about it being up. The care package is meant to unbalance the game play. It is not about the game being balanced and fair or about it being competitive. Many of the things in this game are designed too unbalance play and make it chaotic and more random. So no they do not need to remove any of the KSR above 12 from it just because you feel it is cheap.


                                                                    Basically you just hate the support package because you have probably had the upper ksr ruin your own ks before.


                                                                    Its not a charity package just because you dont like it and it allows players to have a chance to use upper ksr or psr that they may not normaly ever use. And that was the whole desgin of it for this game and the psr and how they work. To take away the emphasis that so many made about ksr in the past requiring skill to get them. This game was meant for the causal players not the hardcore wannabe elite pro skillzed players.

                                                                    Last Edited: Jul 16, 2012 6:43 PM
                                                                • Test #1
                                                                  Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                                  Guns: M16A4: Increase the fire rate a little bit, bring it to about 450 RPM, or increase the distance it takes before damage drop off. The gun has poor range compared to the Type 95, so I say the M16 deserves a little bit of a buff to bring it in line so it's not outclassed.

                                                                  MP7: Simple, increase the recoil a bit! This gun can hit a dime from across the map with a constant stream of bullets, and outclasses a lot of the SMGs in performance, bar the P90.

                                                                  ACR: Same deal as above, increase the recoil of the ACR so it doesn't outperform some of the other ARs.

                                                                  MP5: The stats need to be buffed up a little bit on this gun. The recoil should be lowered, not a lot, but just a little bit so it can stand a chance with the P90. It also needs to have a range boost, and what I mean is bring it up to at least somewhat like it was in CoD4 (it had a range of 18m-25m for damage drop off)

                                                                  AA-12: I understand this guns role is meant to be a beast at close range, but at least give the gun a little bit of a damage buff similar to how the SPAS-12 was buffed.

                                                                  Model 1887: Increase to 9 pellets

                                                                  FMG9: When using akimbo, increase the crosshair size a little more then what it is now, so Steady Aim is an absolute must when using akimbo.

                                                                  Buff Marksman so it's not completely useless against many of the players in the community: Have Marksman counter Assassin Pro. Up to a certain distance, Marksman should counter Assassin Pro and have players name pop up. At longer ranges, sure, Assassin will counter Marksman, but I think that Marksman should be a hard counter to Assassin Pro to some extent. I know Recon counters it too, but that's a relatively uncommon perk compared to stuff like Scavenger and Sleight of Hand. Idk, it's my personal views and open to debate on these ideas, so constructive criticism and discussion is welcome.

                                                                  Last Edited: Jul 15, 2012 6:08 PM
                                                                  • Test #1
                                                                    Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                                    If i did not mention a weapon it is because I agree with you


                                                                    Assault rifles:


                                                                    M16a4 - swap damage with type 95 so it'll do 55-25, the 55 damage dropping off at around 25 meters.


                                                                    Type 95 - Make it do 49-25, the 49 damage dropping off at around 30-35 ish meters.


                                                                    Acr 6.8 - Increase its horizontal recoil.


                                                                    Mk14 - Leave alone.




                                                                    UMP .45 - Increased minimun damage to 20.


                                                                    MP5 - Decreased horizontal recoil.


                                                                    PP90M1 - Leave alone.


                                                                    MP7 - Increased vertical recoil.




                                                                    L86 - No change.


                                                                    MG36 - Decreased horizontal recoil.


                                                                    PKP Pecheneg - Overall decreased recoil.


                                                                    Mk46 - No change


                                                                    M60e4 - make it do 55-35, 55 dropping off at 30 meters.




                                                                    Ksg-12 - Change damage to 36-15.


                                                                    Usas-12 - Increase minimun damage to 7.


                                                                    Spas - Change damage to 36-14


                                                                    AA-12 - Increased range and damage, damage drop off starting a 7 meters and ending at 13 meters. Damage buffed to 18-8.


                                                                    Striker - No change.


                                                                    Model - Change damage to 40-20.




                                                                    Barret .50 cal - fire capped at 500 rpm.


                                                                    Dragunov - Was already buff so yeah...


                                                                    Machine Pistols:


                                                                    Fmg9 - change the damage to 33-19


                                                                    Scorpion - Recoil reduction by 30-40%


                                                                    G18 - Change damage to 42-20 & recoil reduction by 20%


                                                                    Akimbo MP's takes 1 extra shot to kill.




                                                                    Usp .45 - Minimun damage buffed to 20


                                                                    P99 - Minimun damage buffed to 20.


                                                                    MP412 - Minimun damage buffed to 25


                                                                    Five seven - minimun damage buffed to 20


                                                                    Magnum - minimun damage buffed to 25


                                                                    Desert eagle - Reduced recoil.




                                                                    Marksman - It needs a counter so yeah...


                                                                    Assassin - Move invisibility from thermal to Blind eye. Remember Cuav is support so you know how easily they could be abused.




                                                                    - Assault drone is pretty crap so health buff to 700 - 1000 maybe?


                                                                    - 3 flares for the osprey gunner.


                                                                    - Care package is suppose to be any random killstreak so no.


                                                                    - Escort Airdrops are also random so as BS as it is just suck it up.


                                                                    - Buff Assault Juggernauts health to 1500 - 1750.

                                                                    Last Edited: Jul 17, 2012 1:25 AM
                                                                    • Test #1
                                                                      Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                                      I must say that using scavenger to replentish tactical grenades would IMO be a big mistake, the games are already Flashfests on these small maps as it is.....But i do like alot of your ideas

                                                                      Last Edited: Jul 17, 2012 9:32 PM
                                                                      • Test #1
                                                                        Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                                        Precision Airstrike - Slightly increase blast radius.


                                                                        Attack Helicopter - Give a flare.


                                                                        AH-6 Overwatch - Give a flare.


                                                                        Strafe Run - Give 1 flare universally for all 5 choppers.


                                                                        Assault Drone - Slightly increase damage and movement speed.


                                                                        Pave Low - Give additional flare.


                                                                        AC130 - Increase usage time from 40 to 60 seconds.


                                                                        Assault Juggernaut - Slightly increase movement speed. Make it NOT show up on enemy radar unless firing.


                                                                        Osprey Gunner - Give additional flare.


                                                                        Make Scavenger refill all lethal equipment.

                                                                        Last Edited: Jul 17, 2012 10:11 PM
                                                                        • Test #1
                                                                          Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                                          The main problem in MW3 is that they added stopping power on HALF the weapons but only half-way on half of those:
                                                                          (Number of hits to kill is correct for all weapons, but I may switch 42 and 45 and 49 damage for some weapons, but all those damage values are interchangable for all purposes; 42, 45 and 49 damage ALL helps with headshot multipliers reaching 100 in two hits with one headshot and one hit anywhere else)


                                                                          Added "stopping power" damage:

                                                                          ACR..: 30-20 --> 45-30  (Full)

                                                                          G36C: 30-20 --> 42-28 (Full)

                                                                          SCAR-L: 30-20 -> 35-20 (Half)
                                                                          M4.......: 30-20 -> 42-20 (Half)

                                                                          CM901.: 40-30 -> 49-25 (None / long range nerf)
                                                                          AK47...: 40-30 -> 49-25 (None / long range nerf)

                                                                          Mk14....: 50-40 -> 75-49 (Half)

                                                                          M16......: 40-30 -> 49-25 (None / long range nerf)

                                                                          Type-95.: 40-30 -> 50-20 (Half / long range nerf)


                                                                          PP90M1: 30-20 -> 42-17  (Half / long range nerf)

                                                                          P90.......: 30-20 --> 42-20 (Half)
                                                                          MP5......: 40-20 --> 49-20 (None)
                                                                          UMP......: 40-35 --> 49-17 (None / Long range nerf)

                                                                          MP7......: 30-20 --> 42-20 (Half)





                                                                          Thus there are TWO options for instant CoD4 level ++ balance:

                                                                          (M16 has been nerfed to 780 RPM -- my wet dream from CoD4 come true! -- the ONLY overpowered weapon from that game!)


                                                                          1: Add stopping power to ALL weapons -- BUT have the silencer reduce damage one tier to balance out the fact that stopping power isn't a perk, making stealth sacrifice "stopping power" like they should.

                                                                          Then reduce the recoil of CM901 slightly, or give it better range than AK47.


                                                                          2: Nerf all weapons to non-stopping power levels.

                                                                          Then reduce the recoil of CM901 slightly, or give it better range than AK47.
                                                                          Then give M16 more range.
                                                                          Then add one extra spare magazine to AA12.



                                                                          I would prefer the first option.

                                                                          Last Edited: Jul 19, 2012 2:25 AM
                                                                          • Test #1
                                                                            Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                                            PKP should do 49 damage at ALL ranges, making it better to use to shoot down killstreaks and finish off damaged opponents easier while being a 3HK (2HK if ones a headshot and other is anywhere else) Reduce Vertical Recoil SLIGHTLY.


                                                                            AA-12 should do 18-8 instead of 17-8 so its a 4 pellet kill at point blank range with Damage on.


                                                                            EDIT: Actually, make the AA-12 do 20-10, this would make it very/more balanced according to my tests and calculation.

                                                                            Last Edited: Jul 25, 2012 10:55 PM
                                                                            • Test #1
                                                                              Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

                                                                              GET RID OF SITREP PRO!!!!  IT IS WAY OVERPOWERED AND ALL PEOPLE DO WITH IT IS CAMP AND BE SOUNDWHORES WITH IT...it would be alright but it OVER POWERS DEAD SILENCE!....and making peoples footsteps louder is stupid for sitrep pro anyways

                                                                              Last Edited: Jul 25, 2012 8:49 PM