28 Replies Latest reply: Jun 11, 2013 11:20 AM by PERSEUS RSS

    Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)

      The way this game is played is very low thought/mindless/pacman-ish/etc. Everyone is running around like a chicken with their heads cut off.  All the maps are very small with short sightlines for easy CQC encounters.  With the game ending up being very very fast paced with little to no time to stop and collect.

       

      So, I was playing with the S12 today to try and get it Gold so I can progress to getting Diamond for my Shotguns.  I already finished getting Gold for the 870 and the KSG because those shotguns actually work.  But the S12 on the other hand is a joke.  It has terribly short short range which makes for very campy gameplay.  You have to get OHK's in order to progress to the next camo.  So the only possible way to get Gold quickly would be to switch to HC.  But that isn't the point I'm trying to make.

       

      While playing a game of TDM on Highjack, my team was getting destroyed as well as myself who couldn't get a single kill with the S12 even if I spammed the trigger. So I ended up changing to my MP7 mid game.  I ended up dominating the whole team with my MP7 getting 2 lightening strikes and a couple UAVs to help me out.  I ended positive and at the top of the lobby leaderboards because of switching to an easier to use gun. 

       

      What does that tell you about gun balance? 

       

      All the SMGs are easy to use and most of them don't even require you to aim.  How is that balance?  Shouldn't hip fire mean that you have less of a chance to kill the person than if you ADS? 

        • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)

          Treyarch speed up Call of Duty a 5x faster making really a very tough transition for players of previous CODs at about eighty percent of the maps are oriented to Sub Machine Guns/Shotgun gameplay making them seem overpowered but in actuality the guns are very well balanced its just other guns Snipers/Assault Rifles/Light Machine Guns aren't oriented for current Black Ops II style gameplay.

          • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)
            brsox

            I very much disagree that this is a fast paced game. I find myself playing against very campy players most of the time in TDM. I find this annoying since I cant sit still for more than a couple seconds at a time. Most maps are not that big, but its very easy to post up in a head glitch or window with a couple shock charges to watch your back. Either way...if you play against people that run around like chickens with their heads cut off, you shouldnt have any problem.

             

            But... I don't feel like the weapons are very well balanced. The gap between good and bad guns is insane. Hipfire is wayyyy too effective for all guns, especially assault rifles and light machine guns. Shotguns need to be more effective from the hip. The  semi auto handguns are useless next to the machine pistols. Assault Rifle ADS time is too fast compared to SMGs and Shotguns. I could go on with my observations, but oh well. This game is out of balance and it goes deeper than gun stats. I don't think they can really fix it without breaking down the game and starting over. Until IW's next COD we will need to deal.

            • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)
              Tick7

              I was hoping the thread creater would hit the nail on the head. Instead, he missed 7 feet wide of the barn door.

               

              Things to consider:

               

              SMGs are Kings -  So what? The majority of Call of Dutys in the past have relied heavily on the Assault Rifles to be the go-to guns. Have people complained that they are OP in those games? Of course not. What's wrong with SMGs being king in this game? Absolutely nothing. The SMGs are balanced - up close, they work really well. Mid range they are competent. At range, they are crap.

               

              What is Gun Balance? Gun balance is having all gun categories behave the way that they need to behave. ARs are "good" at all ranges. SMGs are "great" at short ranges, and so are shotguns. Snipers are "great" at range as well. Each category of weapon also have it's weaknesses (ARs lose out to SMGs and Shotguns up close, the way they should, and to snipers at range, for example). So based on those characteristics, there is weapon balance in the game as far as the ARs, SMGs, and Shotguns go. That means that ....

               

               

              ...snipers aren't balanced - at range, snipers are great. But they are also too good at medium and short ranges, completely throwing weapon balance out the window. That has always been my issue with things like trigger spamming a sniper rifle, or quick-scoping - it gives snipers an advantage at close range that shouldn't be there based on the type of balance that needs to be in the game. Snipers are unbalanced weapons in this game. Not any of the other weapons.

               

              Guns within categories - are going to be different. The 870 is the best shot gun. The MSMC and the PDW are the best SMGs. The Type-25 and the M27 are the best fully auto ARs. That's the way that it is. The other weapons are lesser weapons based on one characteristic or another.

               

              How does this relate to you - You are using the S-12. Cool. Decent shot gun, but nowhere near one of the best guns in the game. When you got your ass kicked using the weapon, did you look at the killfeed or the killcam? Chances are you were killed by weapons that were better than yours. There's nothing wrong with that. Weapon variety needs to be in the game - what's the point of having all those different weapons if you want them all to behave the same?

                • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)
                  AudibleTuna

                  Your post is "Opinion" and should not be considered factual.

                  • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)

                    Tick7 wrote:

                     

                    I was hoping the thread creater would hit the nail on the head. Instead, he missed 7 feet wide of the barn door.

                     

                    Things to consider:

                     

                    SMGs are Kings -  So what? The majority of Call of Dutys in the past have relied heavily on the Assault Rifles to be the go-to guns. Have people complained that they are OP in those games? Of course not. What's wrong with SMGs being king in this game? Absolutely nothing. The SMGs are balanced - up close, they work really well. Mid range they are competent. At range, they are crap.

                     

                    At range I can still do pretty decent with the SMGs.  I can hipfire them very well at a distance.  Too well if you ask me. 

                     

                    What is Gun Balance? Gun balance is having all gun categories behave the way that they need to behave. ARs are "good" at all ranges. SMGs are "great" at short ranges, and so are shotguns. Snipers are "great" at range as well. Each category of weapon also have it's weaknesses (ARs lose out to SMGs and Shotguns up close, the way they should, and to snipers at range, for example). So based on those characteristics, there is weapon balance in the game as far as the ARs, SMGs, and Shotguns go. That means that ....

                     

                    Look at it this way.  I get what you are saying.  But it doesn't work out when one type of weapon dominates because of the map sizes and "tactics" people use in this game.  SMGs are better than Shotguns at close range because they have the ability to both kill fast super close and outside the range of the Shotguns.  The Shotguns only have the ability to kill at a super short distance and that is it. 


                    The ARs are decent but you don't need to use them since the maps are tooooo small.


                    Snipers are only useable on certain maps.  Balance would be that I could use the Sniper effectively in every map.  But that isn't the case.

                     

                     

                    Guns within categories - are going to be different. The 870 is the best shot gun. The MSMC and the PDW are the best SMGs. The Type-25 and the M27 are the best fully auto ARs. That's the way that it is. The other weapons are lesser weapons based on one characteristic or another.

                     

                    Why is there only one good shotgun?  Why is there 5 good SMGs, and only 2 good full Auto ARs.  That alone shows the lack of balance. 

                     

                    How does this relate to you - You are using the S-12. Cool. Decent shot gun, but nowhere near one of the best guns in the game. When you got your ass kicked using the weapon, did you look at the killfeed or the killcam? Chances are you were killed by weapons that were better than yours. There's nothing wrong with that. Weapon variety needs to be in the game - what's the point of having all those different weapons if you want them all to behave the same?

                     

                    You totally contradict your view when you say "better weapons".  No balance whatsoever when there is already a "better" weapon.

                  • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)
                    grif77775

                    until player have tried every combo for a weapon they shouldnt call over powered.

                    At the minute I'm finding the fal with select fire to a better a weapon than all smg's. It all come down to how you're using weapon

                      • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)
                        Tick7

                        Well said.

                         

                        I liked the FAL, select fire & a suppressor setup as well, but found that the fire rate didn't stand up to the SMGs at all and I got torn up at close range.

                         

                        While it's important to get an experience with all the weapons in the game thuogh, I don't think you need all that much playing with a sniper to realize that they are too strong.

                         

                        Based on the pure mechanics of balance, the sniper should be strong at range, and decent at medium range, but poor at close range. The sniper is deadly at all ranges, which shouldn't be the case.

                         

                        Also - when you had that the sniper has built in "toughness" that reduces your flinch when you are shot, even without the toughness perk, they have the "special hit box" issue of where they get hits even when their shots aren't on target (similar to MW3 sniping before January fix), then it's pretty clear that the snipers are OP across the board.

                      • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)

                        I like how in this topic, LMG's have been mentioned once, in passing.

                        Either these weapons are perfectly balanced and never need to be touched or they are as underpowered as the Post-Patch MW2 1887

                        • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)

                          The only thing I can say, is that you admitted this was a fast pace game. You said that. Then you said you tried camping (not a fast pace thing to do in a fast paced game) and so of course it doesn't work out. Also, maps play a huge factor in gameplay. For example, on Hijacked you should've made some of your perks more accessible to help reap the benefits of camping. On each side of the map there are inside areas that can be dominated if you will as long as you have the right class setup. Your score streaks should include Guardian and/or Auto-Sentry to help suppress people from trying to kill you, and you should use a claymore or bouncing betty with scavenger.

                           

                          My guess is you used none of the aforementioned. Also, team deathmatch is not a good place to get lots of kills. If you don't like objective based games, fine (but thats where you will rack up most of the kills), but there is an alternate solution, and that is to play kill confirmed. The tags give people distractions that you can use to your advantage to help collect more kills so you can get your Diamond Camo for your shotguns.

                           

                          Also its key to learning what class setups your enemies are using. Pay attention to kill cams... they show not only weapons but perks they are using as well.

                           

                          For future reference OP, don't ever let one game determine your opinion on something, think a little more subjectively. 'Was I just having a bad game?' 'Was I just in the wrong places at the wrong times?'

                            • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)

                              I have found that the only way to do well at all in TDM games for me is in fact to camp. Running around even with ghost does not seem to work for me, so holding down an area with advantageous sight lines has brought me the most success. It sucks, because I would rather be able to flank and get behind the other teams. I just have not been able to, and have given up trying.

                              • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)

                                Xaero 7 wrote:

                                 

                                The only thing I can say, is that you admitted this was a fast pace game. You said that. Then you said you tried camping (not a fast pace thing to do in a fast paced game) and so of course it doesn't work out. Also, maps play a huge factor in gameplay. For example, on Hijacked you should've made some of your perks more accessible to help reap the benefits of camping. On each side of the map there are inside areas that can be dominated if you will as long as you have the right class setup. Your score streaks should include Guardian and/or Auto-Sentry to help suppress people from trying to kill you, and you should use a claymore or bouncing betty with scavenger.

                                 

                                I said that the S12 calls for campy gameplay.  But I didn't say I was playing like a camper on Highjack.  I was rushing just like everyone else.  But I also check my corners and do all that jazz. 

                                 

                                My guess is you used none of the aforementioned. Also, team deathmatch is not a good place to get lots of kills. If you don't like objective based games, fine (but thats where you will rack up most of the kills), but there is an alternate solution, and that is to play kill confirmed. The tags give people distractions that you can use to your advantage to help collect more kills so you can get your Diamond Camo for your shotguns.

                                 

                                I appreciate the advice but that wasn't the sole intent for this thread.

                                 

                                 

                                For future reference OP, don't ever let one game determine your opinion on something, think a little more subjectively. 'Was I just having a bad game?' 'Was I just in the wrong places at the wrong times?'

                                 

                                Did you read the part where I said when I switched to the MP7 I totally wreck the opposing side?  I was gettind destroyed by people using better weapons.  That is what I got out of that one game.  And any previous game I played today.  Better weapons are better which makes them unbalanced.  

                              • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)
                                crome420

                                I don't see a need for balancing at all. All weapons are different, and should be made that way. If a weapon is "over-powered", then quit crying and simply use that weapon.

                                 

                                You seem like a guy that would use a Ford pickup to drag race a Ferrari, then cry saying that the Ferrari needs nerfed to go slower.

                                 

                                Choose the best weapon for the game/mode you are playing. Simple as that.

                                • Re: Why I believe the guns aren't balanced(mostly Core TDM oriented)

                                  These older threads are no longer relevant in how the game has changed since 12/02/12.