21 Replies Latest reply: Dec 4, 2013 1:50 PM by LifeInvader RSS

    How to fix Spawn system

      Many feel spawning is a problem, and I agree.  But how to fix it besides some code to increase the acceptatble didstnace to and enemy, etc...

       

      Every online shooter I have played, and most importantly enjoyed, that has a team based mode (TDM, CFT) has one thing in common:  the spawns for a team on a given map are all in the same area.  Meaning each team essentially has a side.

       

      I can not figure out why CoD has never adopted this model in TDM, or at least a variation of it.   Currently they try to spawn you in an area not over taken by the enemy, but obviously this is not working, as I can not tell you how many times I have spawned, cleared a room/general area, then get shot in the back and killcam see what was clearly the enemy spawning right behind me in the area i cleared, making one turn, and tada, there i am.    In maps with teams sides, if i got shot in the back, that player deserved the kill by sneaking behind "enemy lines" or executing a great flank.  Currently all that skill is taken away and you gain these advantages by the luck of your and your enemies spawn position.

       

      The Team portion of TDM i believe is stripped by the current system as well.  For example, I can not count on a teammate i saw take a path to the right of where i did and make it safely through as that area is clear.  Due to the spawning, you have to cover yourself 360 degrees at all times bc soon after he ran through that area.. an enemy just popped up and gets the flank/back shot kill on me bc their spawn. This also obviously encompasses any real flanking procedure of "omg.. there is 1 really good guy whipping up on everyone taking a left path on the map.. guess i should go right, then flank him.."  now become.. ill just wait to spawn directly behind him, or if i don't, someone else will in about 2 seconds.

       

      Their new map style of eliminating corridors and going for more of an open feel has made far reaching site lines to, what seems like, every spawn location.  I am not against the more open maps, but without changing how the spawn works, its tough to play through.

       

      Did sided spawns every cater to one side of a map vs the other?  sure, sometimes, but usually the only thing that made one team dominate another was the lopsided skill of the teams themselves, not the maps.  Spawn protection of a couple seconds also never hurt, and eliminated spawn campers, or if they stayed, were quickly killed.  By having sided spawns, the odds/frequency you will run into someone and die prior to reaching the enemies location to spawn camp are pretty big since we are all coming from the same general location.

       

      There can be an argument made that sided map spawns will increase general camping, but personally, with the new open map feel (and even prior) i welcome it.  If you know exactly where the camper is, and you keep getting killed by them, that is your own fault.  This should be your que to flank them/sneak behind, and get a rewarding kill.

       

      For people that do like the current spawn system, the cranked game type is perfect for you.  It should be (and is) exactly how the spawn system currently works.

       

      EDIT after input from others:  Final thought-  The combo of 1-1.5 sec spawn prot with removal at 1st shot, sided map spawns, and killstreak spawn protection for the full duration or longer is fantastic.  Would allow a better flow of teamwork, actual tactical significance, and remove any reason to spawn camp. But that's just my 2 cents.  Thanks.

        • Re: How to fix Spawn system
          newm8n

          i would say the biggest problem i have seen is that there are to many bo2 players, meaning run around and all for yourself. instead of teams working together to hold a side or work to move around the map. most people(yea there are some) just go to get kills for themselves, i have seen it in dom kc and tdm (only play hc so a limited selection). there is no organization whatsoever so where do you spawn theres 6 players all spread out. now with that being said i do think that the spawns need work and i would like to be able to spawn on players aswell

            • Re: How to fix Spawn system
              squirrelness

              I can see communication improving in February when the adapter comes out for the headsets. 

                • Re: How to fix Spawn system
                  newm8n

                  sure but everyone got a headset with the one so unless they just refuse to use it it shouldnt make a difference come feb

                    • Re: How to fix Spawn system
                      squirrelness

                      Disclaimer:  I spliced my chat headset and TB's together so I can use my headset and still chat.  I'm speaking more for those who don't want to (or don't feel they have the skill set to) splice the headsets together.

                       

                      I can understand those who don't want to use the chat headset, though.  I had a plan to use the chat headset around my neck for the mic and use my TBs for in game sound and to hear the chat.  But it didn't work.  When I plugged the chat headset in the chat sound went through it rather than my TBs.  I have the One hooked up in my upstairs bedroom (the wife also games so we have a 42" and a 40" tv mounted side by side and we both use TBs) and we don't have surround sound on it...mainly because we used headsets on the 360.  My k/d ratio and spm dropped pretty significantly the first week on the One because I was using just the TV speakers in an effort to communicate with the chat headset.  When I plugged in the TBs and gave up trying to communicate my game improved (because I could hear again, haha.)  But again, I can understand someone not willing to give up their gaming headset in order to chat with random teammates. 

                        • Re: How to fix Spawn system
                          newm8n

                          i spliced mine a well and i understand some people are stubborn about that type of stuff heck even i am, i only put the tb on when there are decent people to chat with otherwise i just do my thing. i play the objective most the time, the only time i dont is if theres no support and yes if i had my tb's on i tell people(vicious circle)

                           

                          but i was more referring to the bo2 style of play of headless running coupled with not rewarding objective gameplay,teams are spread all over the map. i am willing to bet that teams of 6 are not having as bad of issues with spawns i could be wrong though

                  • Re: How to fix Spawn system
                    Noob_Lyncher

                    The spawning is bad because most of the good players have stopped playing Ghosts, leaving us with the trash who sit in corners and lay prone everywhere. I can't count how many times I die to one camper, only to spawn directly in front of another camper who hasn't moved from that spot in 3 minutes. I've even spawned directly on IEDs a few times. There's just not that many places to spawn that doesn't have someone laying prone and ADSing that area.

                      • Re: How to fix Spawn system

                        You know what would fix that..  map sided spawns and a little spawn god/protection.  =)

                          • Re: How to fix Spawn system
                            Noob_Lyncher

                            Spawn protection against killstreaks is a good idea, but against players? Nope, that would lead to someone spawning, turning a corner, and winning a gunfight due to invincibility.

                              • Re: How to fix Spawn system

                                The prot against killstreaks is a great idea.

                                 

                                On smaller maps spawn protection is tough, but it doesnt need to be long 1 to 1.5 sec maybe.  Protection should also leave once you fire your first shot (forgot to mention this earlier).  And in ghosts with the faster deaths, thats enough of a adv over the spawn camper. The killstreak prot should last the entire time, or even a little longer.  I am also assuming the spawns will not be in a sniper line of site via simple walls/barricades, something.

                                 

                                If someone is spawn camping and gets you on a smaller map, 1.5 sec would be enough time to return the favor because you know exactly where they are, or your team mate will see it and kill him if you can't in their 1.5 sec.  Meaning, they most likely wont make it past 2 spawn kills max, and with you idea combo'd in.. see below. In other TDM games, that is about how many kills i have seen spawn campers get with this type of system in place.

                                 

                                There could also be a notification of sorts that you are being hit while under protection.  Making the current red indicator yellow for example.  This would alert you someone is trying to camp and their direction, further deterring the activity.  I have also seen this in other games.  While the direction was not indicated, the fact you were being shot was... just trying to figure out how to put this into CoD easily. 

                                 

                                I think the combo of 1-1.5 sec spawn prot with removal at 1st shot, sided map spawns, and killstreak spawn protection for the full duration or longer is fantastic.  Would allow a better flow of teamwork, actual tactical significance, and remove any reason to spawn camp.

                                • Re: How to fix Spawn system
                                  squirrelness

                                  They could at least make you immune to explosions for two or three seconds.

                                   

                                  Got spawn killed twice tonight due to being spawned onto IEDs.  The worst part is I use sit rep so I saw it coming and there was nothing I could do. 

                            • Re: How to fix Spawn system

                              So you want every match to be played like Demolition where spawn killing runs rampant? Wow spawn exploitation is strong within you the problem with Demolition is spawn killing the problem with TDM is the spawns are most of the time static just like Demolition and when they become dynamic they are spawning people right behind or right in front of the enemy. The spawns need to be made Dynamic only and the static spawns need to be gotten rid of cause they have never worked. They need put spawns all over the map then they need to add a feature where it lets you select if you wanna spawn with your team mates and the second option would be to spawn away from the enemy they need to have only those two logics to make the spawn system improve yes revenge spawns are bad and so are spawning near the enemy they need to remove the possibility of those two things happening. If they do your idea they need to cut the maps into halves and put each team's spawns all over both halves so spawn camping isn't possible. I think they should put an AI Controlled Spawn System into the game with the ability to learn from mistakes and errors meaning if you kill someone or die 2 to 3 seconds of spawning it learns from that mistake. The spawns need to either spawn players away from the enemy or spawn players with their team mates or better yet put those spawn options into the game since the Tactical Insertion is no longer in the game.

                                • Re: How to fix Spawn system

                                  You did not take the idea as a whole.  You chose the 1 aspect of sided map spawns and tore it apart without adding everything else to deter the spawn camp activity.  If none of the other ideas were in place, you would be 100% correct... but that is not what I am suggesting in the slightest.

                                   

                                  And yes, in the idea of sided map spawns, they are not all in a box.. they are in multiple areas on one side of the map, normally near the edges.

                                   

                                  In most other CPU shooters i have played this is they system they employ.  I am merely trying to tailor it to CoD.

                                   

                                  I wouldn't mind the spawn near teammates option, but that would have to have a long spawn timer associated with it or your group would be immortal.  I also do not think CoDs maps are large enough to utilize this option like Battlefield.  Because the maps are not large, I like the idea that if you die, you have to make your way back to the group, or them come to you and the game mechanics this would entail.  (Such as you are cut off from them by an enemy group and they have to come get you out).  That, rather then the almost 0 punishment and spawning back with everyone in a few seconds. This would also give you the opportunity to flank/sneak around them, but as they know the enemy is coming from a general direction and not spawned right behind them, it would still take teamwork and sneakiness.  Maybe you pull it off.. maybe they catch you and its 3 on 1 and you should have tried to rejoin instead.

                                    • Re: How to fix Spawn system

                                      One sided spawns are proven to fail no matter what and Demolition and CTF are the biggest proof of it. They need to make it where the spawns have safety and are dynamic or they need to add ten times more spawns into the game and allow people to spawn near their team or spawn away from the enemy this is a new age of FPS so one sided spawns are obsolete since many people would take advantage of the spawns and just spawn camp ruining the entire game and killing it further then it already is.

                                  • Re: How to fix Spawn system
                                    ll_Zeros_II

                                    I agree that the spawn system definitely needs an overhaul but I strongly advise against giving set zone for teams.  Anyone who played Modern Warfare 2 will probably remember Demolition matches where some assh*le (usually me xD) would spawn camp the enemy team to rack up kills and call Chopper Gunners and.. yea.. it all gets pretty ugly after that.. lol

                                     

                                    Instead, I think spawning should be adjusted to a zoning rule.  Meaning that if all of your teammates are currently in "Spawn Zone A"  *NO ONE* can spawn in zone A Enemy or Friendly.  That'll keep the badguys from respawning in your butthole and it wont make team-camping easier. 

                                     

                                    As for spawn protection, it is already in play for killstreaks.  I have several gameclips on Xbox One as proof that a freshly spawned player has CONSIDERABLE resistance to killstreak damage when they first spawn.  LOTS of Helo-Pilot clips where Im shooting a newly spawned player with direct hits and its still taking 3-5 hits to kill him lol.  Its looking like its there for killstreaks or at least Helo-Pilot. 

                                     

                                    I do not like the idea of spawn protection from players tho.  That would be a step in the wrong direction as It would be unfair to me to be killed by a guy who's partially invulnerable when I'm having a really good game.  That would practically make K.E.M. Strikes impossible in TDM.  I'd rather see the return of Final Stand before seeing that lol

                                    • Re: How to fix Spawn system

                                      What they need to do is quit spawning teammates on teammates. Creates spawning into bullets/insta-kills and ruins stealth maneuvers.