13 Replies Latest reply: Dec 23, 2013 4:58 PM by LordPookums RSS

    Why.....?

      Why are the Devs not listening to the players?  Sure...there is some disagreement about weapons and such.  But we are 95% agreeable that the C4 Riot Shield combo is OP, and Amplify is wayyyyyyyy to OP.  FIX IT...please?

        • Re: Why.....?
          nicedrewishfela

          Hey Khufu... you may want to check this out... teanah from IW posted on upcoming changes and improvements.

           

          Perhaps you can post your suggestions there?

           

          Upcoming Improvements to Call of Duty: Ghosts

          • Re: Why.....?

            Because the majority of players are troglodytes who have no idea how to balance a game and only care what would help them and not the experience overall.

             

            There are very few people that can discuss the problems and brainstorm suggestions without looking for a way to swing things in their favor.

            • Re: Why.....?
              Bielsalmighty

              No we aren't 95% agreeable. Because its perfectly counterable. Danger Close Noob Tube class. The RS/C4 class only works against people who are too stupid to use its glaringly obvious counter.

              • Re: Why.....?
                Shadowelite555

                C4 riot shield combo and Amplify are OP. But who knows? The devs could be working on it right now; problems like these cant be fixed in a week.

                • Re: Why.....?

                  No we are not 95% agreed. Have some respect.

                   

                  C4/Riot is not OP. It has been present in previous iterations. It also worked better in previous variations, while still not working a whole lot at all. Riot shield is and always has been underpowered. It does not matter what combo it uses. It is a flawed weapon that can be bypassed with a mere Gun. It doesn't even require as much as others suggest to counter. However, those suggestions just make countering it that much easier. If anything the riot shield needs an even greater buff, because the small shield upgrades certainly didn't do enough to make it better.

                   

                  As for amplify(aka sitrep pro). This has been a strong broken perk ever since it reared its ugly head. They need to prevent its capacity to be used as a personal permanent sound-based VSAT. Beyond that, its a perfectly reasonable perk. I'd even be ok if it allowed players to hear gunshots and reloads across the entire map(yes that much) if it would stop enabling footstep tracking. Its merely the ability to know exactly where everyone is around you and exactly where they are that makes it an issue. No other perk is that powerful. Not even Stopping Power and Commando with Combat knife in MW2.  Fix the footstep issue and you fix this perk. I'd suggest just turning off footsteps entirely except on metal grates, pliable wood, and loose material...that would mean the series could also get rid of dead silence. That would also mean you wouldn't have to nerf it. Hell you would do the opposite in this example.

                    • Re: Why.....?
                      wraithoverlord

                      Sorry but I don't think that Amplify is OP for one second. Most players use it because they have headsets, and if you have used a headset before you can hear so much more than with normal T.V speakers.

                       

                      Also you can hear the direction they are running from because of DOLBY DIGITAL SURROUND SOUND. Amplify has nothing to do with sound direction etc

                       

                      It just makes footsteps louder. I personally don't use amplify as my headsets can make out other players approaching just fine Unless they are using dead silence.

                        • Re: Why.....?
                          half-megatron

                          no, most people use it because it its OP....there are times when i dont even use a headset and I never used amplify and I still hear people.....its a clutch that has no counter.

                          • Re: Why.....?

                            Amplify(aka sitrep pro) has been OP ever since its release in MW2(CoD4:MW had eavesdrop but that only boosted enemy voices). In other games, many sounds did not make a lot of sound unless you equipped it. Ghosts is unique in the amount of sound presented even without amplify equipped. Likewise, in the past you actually had to level up to pro to use it, and you lost it when you prestiged, which prevented some of the abuse.

                             

                            Headset users used it more often, because with headsets you can abuse the perk more easily. There were youtube videos that showed up on the settings to play with on headsets in order to listen to enemy players across half the map in the early days between MW2 and MW3. Good headsets also tend to have better sound channels then crap TV speakers and are less likely to prevent what could be called sound misfires, where a sound doesn't properly play.

                             

                            A good surround sound system will also prevent those errors, but is more expensive then a headset. Likewise surround sound systems are not always set up properly. Many owners have them incorrectly playing standard stereo, rather than correctly producing true surround sound. On a computer its even worse, as mere OS updates can mess with the system(happens to me a lot on my PC. I don't play CoD on PC, but I do use it for other things and I hate having to reset and fix all my settings).

                             

                            This also presents a problem known as "paying to win." Games should always have their abilities and weapons balanced as much as it can to prevent players from purchasing hardware that gives players a unique or vastly greater enhancement experience, allowing them to outplay others not based on merit, but based on how rich or tech-savvy they are in the world. Whole games have been boycotted and tanked over this issue. CoD should not be immune to this concept.

                             

                            Additionally, I did not say amplify had to do with sound direction. I was stating it allowed you to know where everyone is around you, because of the amount of footstep sound it amplified. Normal sound in Ghosts is stronger...but is generally not consistent enough to rely on without the perk attached.

                             

                            The last statement you made is also why I suggest removing footsteps entirely in the series except on certain floors such as grates, loose material etc. This way players could still have amplify/sitrep pro(it just would not work on footsteps which would now lack sound). It could also be buffed greatly, allowing players to use it as a general tracker for when players spoke, used equipment, fired guns, or reloaded, without the ultra-precise pre-aiming from its sound-based vsat of its current iteration. It also means, that when players purchase headsets because they enjoy the sound experience, they can do so without an advantage or the burden of players complaints.

                             

                            If you don't believe its OP, search through youtube on known video Streaming players. Sometimes every SINGLE one of their classes has it equipped. Not just in Ghosts, but in videos of every CoD they ever played back to MW2. No other perk has players using it that consistently. That is the very definition of imbalance. A truly balanced weapon will show up here and there not everywhere.

                             

                            Again the problem is not that there exists a perk that boosts sounds. The problem is that there exists a perk that boosts sounds which includes FOOTSTEPS. Remove Footsteps from the game, and you solve the problem. No nerf needed.

                          • Re: Why.....?
                            BU773TPROOF

                            Your'e wrong about foot steps, they are part of detecting enemies and are part of being aware in the game. In MW2 you had to give up ninja to have sit-rep, that's a huge loss. Steady aim back then was a pretty good perk as well.

                             

                            In Black ops 2 they got rid of foot steps, people still camped and nothing changed. New tactics were used like red dot chasing and UAV spam.

                             

                            In Ghosts dead silence actually will help you against amplify players. I am at the point where I don't bother using amplify most of the time, I just use dead silence. I can hear foot steps just fine. I believe dead silence is over powered because amplify doesn't cancel it out.

                             

                            Keep in mind you have to end up giving up things like quick draw and off the grid to run those perks. I find that allot of players just want to run around like Quake 2 with no repercussions.

                             

                            They should not remove sound as part of the games play. I dont use radar allot I prefer the sound. I didn't ask for them to remove the radar from the game, because I don't like it. If they did I wouldn't care. There is a way to counter anything, if some one else is beating you adapt.

                              • Re: Why.....?
                                Bielsalmighty

                                Amplify DOES counter DS though. I've fallen foul of that, and I've heard DS users coming when I've had Amplify on. They are quieter than normal guys sure, but I can still hear em.

                                • Re: Why.....?

                                  NOTE*** I apologize for the length of my response, but I was trying to be thorough. It is a tendency of mine.

                                  BU773TPROOF wrote:

                                   

                                  Your'e wrong about foot steps, they are part of detecting enemies and are part of being aware in the game.

                                   

                                  We know from experience that players can use footsteps as a PERMANENT VSAT. Which killstreak out of all the killstreaks in the Call of Duty franchise has been generally considered the Number 1 best? Congratulations it is Blackbird/VSAT.

                                   

                                  Allowing a player to have a VSAT that is permanent, regardless of whether it is through sound, some special non-streak weapon, vision, or otherwise is unacceptable. This has been a KNOWN issue. Far outside of the past 2 CoDs dating all the way back to MW2.

                                   

                                  BU773TPROOF wrote:

                                   

                                  In Black ops 2 they got rid of foot steps, people still camped and nothing changed. New tactics were used like red dot chasing and UAV spam.

                                   

                                  They did not get rid of footsteps in BLOPS 2 (not unless it came in a patch beyond early May, when I stopped). The footsteps were odd, and lesser in many areas of the map, but they were present. I did notice they had a tendency to result in those "sound misfires" or trigger at delayed intervals.


                                  I remember one game players on my team were complaining the enemy could track and prefire to easily. After several rounds when questioned by those players, the enemy team players said they had played with settings of their brand new headsets, and after hours of tweaking they were able to find a setup that made the sounds blaring, as sitrep did in past CoDs, with a few hiccups on rare occasions. I think most other players who normally relied on sound, instead gave up and decided it was too much hassle to figure out. Without hearing through those headsets myself, I could not compare personally. This does go back to the Pay to Win Issue I was discussing.


                                  Players might still camp, but without footsteps they would not be able to abuse sound-vsat. That makes footing more equal. Red dot chasing and UAV spam has always happened. They seem to be trying to find some balance for it more recently. However, Red dots are not as bad as VSAT. Red dots are not as constant, and cannot be used to pre-fire in the same fashion as sitrep although some players seem to be making an effort to discover a way to do this. Dots can mostly make a player more prepared about an incoming enemy, which is different. RD sighting was also more an issue in BLOPS 2 because of the revenge spawns and the two-sided maps, which had a tendency to produce lopsided battles.

                                   

                                  BU773TPROOF wrote:

                                   

                                  In Ghosts dead silence actually will help you against amplify players. I am at the point where I don't bother using amplify most of the time, I just use dead silence. I can hear foot steps just fine. I believe dead silence is over powered because amplify doesn't cancel it out.

                                   

                                  Dead Silence helps...mildly. Players can still hear you in ghosts. Likewise, you are forced to run DS if you want to have any benefit at all to prevent an issue. Players should not be FORCED to use a certain perk to guarantee protection against abuse.

                                   

                                  BU773TPROOF wrote:

                                   

                                  Keep in mind you have to end up giving up things like quick draw and off the grid to run those perks. I find that allot of players just want to run around like Quake 2 with no repercussions.

                                   

                                  Having a super-buffed amplify/sitrep beyond what it currently is, with a trade-off for a removal of DS from the franchise and no more footsteps except on a few rare pieces of footing is acceptable. It would make AMP useful, as a general tracker, allowing players to quickly and precisely locate the enemy team around the entire map when they fire a gun, use equipment, shout, etc. All this without being able to abuse it as a personal vsat(the most important problem to solve), or as a crutch to prevent being ninja'd, which if you got ninja'd was your own fault in the first place. That would make it balanced with other perks.

                                   

                                  Also, players are not running around like quake 2. Not even close. Players have a tendency to use cover when moving, even new players. That is not a problem. Even in BLOPS 2 they were not running around like Quake 2. If it seemed that way, it has more to do with the fact that there was almost NO COVER IN THAT GAME. You could use walls to pop in and out, a haystack and the occasional trashcan-like object or counter-like object. That was the totality of BLOPS 2 cover. You couldn't exactly use things to block bullets in that game either, as most were made of paper. I don't necessarily agree with those decisions in BLOPs 2, but that is another story.

                                   

                                  Personally, I like MW3 cover. Of all the cover in CoD games MW3 got it right. The maps were mostly all small, unfortunately, but cover could be used to move from place to place and block certain bullet-lines, without being overly complicated in terms of flow. Likewise, they were generally away from the sides of the map and did not hide the player model, allowing them to be used as staging points, without serving as corner camping spots, or methods for playing Hide-and-seek.

                                   

                                  Also, If this were a Game like Quake 2, we wouldn't need to worry about footsteps, because camping gets you killed in twitch shooters. Enemies have too much health to survive and dodge far too easily to ensure you can remain on target. The natural aspects of twitch shooters negate camping as a viable tactic in entirety. Since this is not a twitch shooter, and you can die instantly, you need to consider how allowing a player a permanent way for guaranteeing the first shot by pre-firing is an issue.

                                   

                                  BU773TPROOF wrote:

                                   

                                  They should not remove sound as part of the games play. I dont use radar allot I prefer the sound. I didn't ask for them to remove the radar from the game, because I don't like it. If they did I wouldn't care. There is a way to counter anything, if some one else is beating you adapt.

                                   

                                  For the bolded part..I WONDER WHY!? I don't mean that as statement to you as a player, but rather making a point. Sound when focused upon is always superior to radar specifically because it can be used as Sound-VSAT. I have done it on rare occassions. I know how powerful sitrep listening is in COD. I don't generally use it because I have certain principles which include first and foremost: NOT ABUSING GAME MECHANICS.

                                   

                                  It makes games boring and as a player, you end up feeling like an ass for abusing blatantly overpowered tools. I don't like that feeling. There was even a certain fellow on the forums who made a thread stating how horrible he was doing and asked for help(it happens. Especially getting used to a new game). From what I remember, he was negative and couldn't even get the first killstreaks. Someone told him to equip 2 explosives(Ieds I think, but might have been frags. Maybe c4), amplify, and I think it was Remington at the time. They told him to camp a corner in an active area of the map. He came back a day later stating he had "camped his ass off and received a kem strike". One forumgoer remarked "and this here is why this game sucks," which proceeded to get comments of support and numerous likes. If you know ghosts you would know that 2 explosives cannot be replenished, so thats 2 kills...maybe 3 with luck. Likewise, even though the remington is strong and accurate, it is not strong enough to make a negative player go KEM. We are left purely with AMPLIFY. Which I'm certain has everything to do with hearing players move like a freight train in ghosts with AMP on. Even if it only sounded like a crappy Motor-scooter, this would not matter if a player focuses purely on sound to get kills. That amounts to the same thing.

                                   

                                  All perks and class setups should be functional and useful. Making a purely balanced setup for all classes may be difficult, however given the number of perks and guns, there should be a few choices for every playstyle at the very least. That isn't possible if your forced to choose 1 or 2 things above all other in their category, or always be at a greater disadvantage than if you had chosen them.

                                   

                                  As for ADAPT. That is not a proper response to imbalance. I can do well. I kill my opponents. I can equip any killstreak and acquire the streak. My Gun streak before death is 28(I only play TDM(vast majority) and Infected in ghosts). The reason I understand the imbalance of footstep tracking so well is because of how well I can do when I choose to do my best. Players abusing the mechanic however, ruins the fun. It is worse in ghosts, but it has been bad for awhile.

                                   

                                  Sorry for the length again.

                              • Re: Why.....?
                                KTPhoenix

                                We are NOT 95% agreed. I want to see the stats you had to come up with that number.

                                 

                                How about this, you learn to adapt to the way the game is and everyone goes home happy?

                                 

                                Do you know how tiring it is to see threads of people complaining about simple things that you could avoid day in and day out?

                                 

                                Its getting old. The old "nerf this" and "patch that" all because you are having a "hard time" against it mentality is getting old and is not being payed much more attention anymore.

                                 

                                When it comes to how the Devs are now making people play the game how THEY want you to play it (which is how it SHOULD be) i would like to quote John C. McGinley from scrubs saying "I don’t know if they taught you this in the land of fairies and puppy-dog tails, where you obviously, if not grew up then at least spent most of your summers, but you’re in the real world now. Nnnnn-kay?"

                                 

                                Which means grow up and adapt.

                                • Re: Why.....?
                                  Fang_1192

                                  There sure is a lot of disagreement for being 95% agreed. Maybe you want to consider revising that percentage TC?

                                   

                                  I like how as soon as riot shields become a threat they are deemed OP. Pathetic. Everyone flocked to chucking and airbursting C4 in Blops 2, and that was fine, but now it isn't? *slow clap*

                                   

                                  Would I like to see a C4 nerf? sure. It gets tedious at times. But to call any set up with the riot shield OP is laughable. There  is so much BS a riot shield user has to put up with. Buff my riot shield first then we can talk about nerfing my riot shield set up.