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      • 100. Re: Lag Comp Needs to be dialed back a bit.
        starbuckfrack

        Here is an answer from a programmer.

         

        Respawn Entertainment forum • View topic - Does lag compensation punish players with good connections

         

        Nope. Antilag makes it so you don't have to lead your targets, but it doesn't change the order of the damage on the server. It does the damage in the present, with entity positions from the past. But if you don't have antilag and players know how to lead their targets perfectly, it behaves exactly the same.

        The world is rewound to play back the bullet when the lagged player's fire command eventually arrives at the server, but the low-ping player will still have the first chance at killing the higher ping player, because his/her fire commands get there first.

        To put it simply: if two players both unload at each other simultaneously with the same weapon with perfect accuracy, the low-ping player will still win.

        Now, if the higher ping player shoots and gets his/her fire command to the server first, then he/she will win.

         

        ---------------------------------

         

        It might give you an answer there because as you say principles never change.

         

        Now I remember you. "I am behind everyone in the lobby by 3-5 sec  "

         

        And here is the good one. You said this TWICE...

         

        "This will be my last cod game. I shell out  the same amount of cash that other people do why do I have all of the lag. I am constantly behind by 2-3 sec."

         

        "I said this after mw3 that it was my last mw3... this is my last bo... my last cod period."

         

        Now is about the time where you say "I didnt buy it it was a gift" or "I rented it"

        • 101. Re: Lag Comp Needs to be dialed back a bit.
          nuttin2say

          Keep reading my post over and over again until you figure it out. I'm not going to teach you how to read.

          • 102. Re: Lag Comp Needs to be dialed back a bit.
            domgalmem

            First... anti-lag or lag comp in tamdem with interpolation methods may/can generate these inconsistencies between what the player see and what the host detects...This has not changed.  While there should not be any major issues with face to face encounters, typically people are not just standing and shooting the are moving around... side stepping etc. In cases like this the rewind time for one of the two players may be while they are in a : say ducking position, whereas the other player see the head of that player at the exact moment of the kill. This holds true also for bending bullets (arounds walls)- I think we can agree on all of this... right?

             

            Then, IMHO, since you linked to :

            "

            Lag compensation effectively "rewinds time." It digs through its memory for a game state that matches the client's information and implements it under those conditions.  This accounts for latency, interpolation, and anything else that creates a time delay that the game can manage to quantify.  The benefits of Server side lag compensation are that it is virtually immune to things such as lagswitches and various hacks (however things such as god mode hacks and aimbotting would still work).  The downside of course is that it's flat out not perfect.  Modern day lag compensation is very accurate for what it's worth, but CoD sends data from each client at 30 states a second all the while running at close (or more in the PC version's case) to 60 FPS on each client.  Small precision errors can still occur and have very unfavorable results.

             

            There are other methods of lag compensation, however Jon Shiring AKA slothy (Ex Infinity Ward now RespawnE employee) has effectively confirmed that The IW Cods used rewind time compensation in here." (from your post)

             

            And we know that interpolation (rewind time)/lag comp can result in this:

            "For instance, if a highly lagged player shoots at a less lagged player and scores a hit, it can appear to the less lagged player that the lagged player has somehow "shot around a corner"10. In this case, the lower lag player may have darted around a corner. But the lagged player is seeing everything in the past. To the lagged player, s/he has a direct line of sight to the other player. The player lines up the crosshairs and presses the fire button. In the meantime, the low lag player has run around a corner and maybe even crouched behind a crate. If the high lag player is sufficiently lagged, say 500 milliseconds or so, this scenario is quite possible. Then, when the lagged player's user command arrives at the server, the hiding player is transported backward in time and is hit. This is the extreme case, and in this case, the low ping player says that s/he was shot from around the corner."

            I am not convienced of your argument.

            As for my earlier post:

            It might give you an answer there because as you say principles never change.

             

            Now I remember you. "I am behind everyone in the lobby by 3-5 sec  "

             

            And here is the good one. You said this TWICE...

             

            "This will be my last cod game. I shell out  the same amount of cash that other people do why do I have all of the lag. I am constantly behind by 2-3 sec."

             

            "I said this after mw3 that it was my last mw3... this is my last bo... my last cod period."

             

            Now is about the time where you say "I didnt buy it it was a gift" or "I rented it"

            Yes... it is a rant, and yes I am fed up of being insta-killed and feeling like I have no chance of getting a kill. As I said to you guys then, that's what it felt like to me and I VOICED MY OPINION.

            Frustration does have its benefits tho-It sent me back to doing what I do best! RESEARCH- you know.

            Yah and this will be my last COD game... all of my friends from Grad-School have stopped playing. Unlike me though, they didn't buy BF4

            • 103. Re: Lag Comp Needs to be dialed back a bit.
              domgalmem

              Thanks, Professor!

              I will keep reading until I understand.

              I hope you have a freaking PhD in comprehension by the way?

              • 104. Re: Lag Comp Needs to be dialed back a bit.
                nuttin2say

                domgalmem ... did I see another post from you where you said you party up with people from both the East Coast and the West Coast while you are located centrally, in Texas?

                • 105. Re: Lag Comp Needs to be dialed back a bit.
                  andynewns

                  The arrogance of some people on this thread is amazing, thinking they know all the answers ( not directed at the person I replied to, yours was just the last post)

                   

                  Do I know all the answers? No

                   

                  Do I have experience with networking? Yes 5 years as a network engineer at the start of my career.

                   

                  Call it what you want but "lag compensation" leveling connections exists. Without this the game would be unplayable, host would have advantage filtered down from best ping & speed to worst.

                   

                  I don't know about anyone else but I dont want to be ahead any more than I want to be behind. I Would love to be on a level playing field.

                   

                  As lots of people have stated the master game/server calculates what has happen in the game after it has happened, and then sends back the data to the clients(us playing) as to what it thinks happened.

                   

                  The bit I think everyone is moaning about is what happens when the server calculates who shot first for example. The server will try and level off pings, speed bandwidth to understand who shot first in real life, this is where the descepencies happen, the calculations might be off, it may favour the higher pings slightly or may favour lower pings slightly, no one knows except the person who writes the algorithm.

                   

                  People connections change across a game which is why you may see lag at the start and then fine second half. Also the master server probably checks your connection at point though the game.

                   

                  There is a calculation  in the game that balances are connections and I would guess this is being adjusted all the time as I have good days / weeks, and then I will have a bad day or 2 weeks. It is not a perfect science you can never make it perfect but you can make it allot better than it is.

                  • 106. Re: Lag Comp Needs to be dialed back a bit.
                    starbuckfrack

                    OK lets put the cards on the table and for me end this ridiculous stuff.

                     

                    First of all the game does not put me at 2 or 3 seconds behind and none of them have. Most of the time these COD games have run fine. Sure once in a while I get in lobbies where I am running into walls, etc etc. But overall the still all run fine to me.

                     

                    For you one the other case they run like crap. All of them. And you know what I honestly could care less whatsoever. I dont get paid by Activision whatsoever for replying to people in this thread. I do it because I want to help you.

                     

                    so if you want to go buy the next Three or 4 games then you can suffer in all of them for all I care. You can take your theories and blame the pixel colors in the game and spend the next ten years being behind 3 or 4 seconds in the game. Do you notice that no developer is here helping you ? Did you notice that no developers has solved the problem for you for YEARS ?

                     

                    So do you want to fix the issues or do you just want to spend the next ten years crying about the game. I dont have to reply to you at all.

                     

                    Now lets get down to some facts.

                     

                    1,2,3,4,5. Do you know what interpolation does there ? I bet you dont. Interpolation adds 1.5, 2.5 etc. It takes known variables from history and fills in the blanks. It does NOT add numbers from out of nowhere. It will not add 6 to that equation because the number after 6 never showed yet.

                     

                    As for you offering your opinion or your problems with this game YOU said you would never buy this game again multiple times. So if you got this problem with this game then YOU are at fault for buying this game when you said you never would. If you buy a Maytag and every month it fills your kitchen with water then YES that is the fault of the washer. But if you promise not to buy another one and DO buy another Maytag then you are at fault if it happens again. Fool me once shame on them fool me twice shame on you.

                     

                    So again how many "last times " are you going to have with this game? Last time was the last time. The time before that was the last time.

                     

                    Nobody cares and the developers dont care if any time was your last time. But meanwhile you keep on lying that it was your last time. Do you get it now ? You said you would never buy the game again TWICE in the same statement but you still bought the game . For one that makes you a liar. I dont deal with liars and children so the next step is up to you.

                     

                    As I said you can suffer for all I care and I will be laughing at ever single post where you go 3 or 4 seconds behind. A year from now or 5 years from now you would still be in the same boat while I will be enjoying my game .

                     

                    Oh and that quote you said states that it is a EXTREME chance of happening. It doesnt happen all the time. IF it happens it happens about 5 percent of the time.

                     

                    I mean just because I posted you two links you are under the assumption that I dont know what interpolation is.

                    • 107. Re: Lag Comp Needs to be dialed back a bit.
                      nuttin2say

                      andynewns ... no offense taken. But discussion is a two-way street. If some of the folks here seem arrogant because they "shoot down" every wild claim made about lag, netcode, the internet itself, or lag compensation, you need to also look at the arrogance of some of the people making the often illogical, unsubstantiated claims.

                       

                      No offense to you, but your post is a good example of someone who feels they have greater expertise than they actually have in the matter. A network engineer is going to be able to tell how a router works, where the messages from a home pc go after they leave a house, describe how a message gets from point A to point D, etc.

                       

                      But a network engineer is not necessarily going to be able to explain how lag compensation works in an online game.

                       

                      That said, the game is not predicting who shot who. I've played 1000s of hours and I can say, unequivocally, that is not happening. Now, the game may score an event in the other player's favor after what you saw on your screen, yes. But what you see on your screen is not 100% accurate as to what is actually happening with the opposing player. That's what no one seems to be able to get. The automatic assumption is that "my internet is the best." This creates an enormous problem in face to face engagements. And that's where you see 99% of the lag comp complaints. The players who tend to flank or kill opponents from positions where their opponent does not see them have the least amount of complaints.

                       

                      One designer I spoke to says the game likely time stamps events, buffers them, and then sends back to the clients a score of events every so often. He said the hardware is plenty capable of calculating these events very fast, but he also said that doing so every 12ms to 20ms seems way too fast due to the natural latency of the internet and the speed at which events take place in a typical COD game. Others have not contradicted the buffering, but they do place greater emphasis upon players getting their events to the host fastest (and, most importantly, most reliably). I think it is some combination of the two.

                       

                      Lag compensation, what some people refuse to understand, serves no purpose other than to make what happens on the screen do so smoothly and without magically appearing, magically freezing, and magically reappearing players on the screen. That is the single purpose of lag compensation. Lag compensation has nothing to do whatsoever with scoring events. Lag comp relies upon the events being scored. Unfortunately, others believe that the scoring of events relies upon lag compensation.

                       

                      That's where the argument lies. The problem with those that believe that lag comp scores the events is that the science is not in their favor. But they believe it is. They believe so because they want to start with a solution they deem is a problem then work forward. Lag compensation is a solution to a problem, not the start of the problem.

                      • 108. Re: Lag Comp Needs to be dialed back a bit.
                        FalconR6

                        I think a hard thing for gamers to get their head around is that latency is a doubled edged sword. More often than not a player with a lower ping will have slight advantage over higher ping opponent - but, there are circumstances where by the higher pinged player will get the heads-up.

                        • 109. Re: Lag Comp Needs to be dialed back a bit.
                          andynewns

                          Now at any point did I say I was a BT engineer and I think the only routers have ever touched are mine and friends.

                           

                           

                          A network engineer is very different to what you think!

                           

                           

                          However if you want me to go into more depth I will happily explain to you how data goes from A to D and back to A, I may not work with computer games, but I work with systems which use exactly the same technology. Just not on this thread

                           

                           

                          As I said before I don't care what you call it "lag compensation" or whatever you want, I am not that pedantic about the terms, yet some people seem to be. However when a term becomes common place to express an item/object or action it absolutely becomes the correct term. "Pristine" doesn't actually new good condition but means ancient.

                           

                           

                          Now back to the point however you want to put it, inconsistencies with game play due to connectivity. Just for ease I will call it "lag comp".

                           

                           

                          Within any server or system, where users connect concurrently and interact with each other or data you need to balance the connections to interact correctly. This balancing is where the issue lies, and as I said before it's never going to be perfect but it needs consistent adjustment.

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