37 Replies Latest reply: Jan 21, 2014 12:59 PM by Sannji RSS

    Not to whine about spawns again but...

    ghamorra

      There's an entire map to play and spawns seem to only be concerned with one small portion of the map. Whiteout seems to spawn players only by the mill and Tremor by the downed helicopter.

       

      These two maps have the most obvious spawn logic and it causes for some pretty bad games. All games have their moments but consistently on these maps I find my deaths to come in bunches. The last game on Tremor I died 8 times in row. Like in 35 seconds I died 8 times because I spawned in the same spot repeatedly. Use the whole map

       

      The solution to spawns just seems obvious

        • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
          HEREIAMNOW

          I really changed the way I played because of the spawn logic.  Now, I am practically ADS towards spawns to get freebie kills.

          • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
            scotland-rules

            Its probably been designed like that in an attempt to 'keep players in the action'

             

            Basically that was the BO2 mentality with the spawns and sad to say, but I think Ghosts dev team have adopted the same motto.

              • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                ghamorra

                I don't see that as being logical at all. They ran into the same issue with MW3 where they tried Revenge Spawns and it failed miserably. The game has limited spawn locations so if you were to spawn nearby the person that killed you it makes your spawn very predictable. Just scrap the concept and spawn players safely. As of right now these large maps are having serious issues with spawns and at the same time all the action is being focused to particular areas. Whiteout is huge, so why are players constantly focused near the mill?

                  • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                    rankismet

                    ghamorra wrote:

                     

                    I don't see that as being logical at all. They ran into the same issue with MW3 where they tried Revenge Spawns and it failed miserably. The game has limited spawn locations so if you were to spawn nearby the person that killed you it makes your spawn very predictable. Just scrap the concept and spawn players safely. As of right now these large maps are having serious issues with spawns and at the same time all the action is being focused to particular areas. Whiteout is huge, so why are players constantly focused near the mill?

                     

                    Revenge spawning is still in the game.

                      • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                        ghamorra

                        If I'm not mistaken, they removed the concept of revenge spawning but only so far as they're not spawning you near the person who killed you so much as spawning you near the action. Or at least, that's what I took from one of a videos I saw.

                          • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                            rankismet

                            Last night... I killed a guy across the map on stonehaven... I moved 20 feet and he shot me in my back.

                             

                            I respawned and was facing the guy I had killed who had killed me at about 200 feet... and I killed him. Again.

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            100% certain it's still there.

                              • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                ghamorra

                                As I've stated elsewhere, I don't think it's necessarily revenge spawn as much as it's trying to keep players near the action. I've killed been killed many times and based on killcam I know where I was shot from and yet didn't spawn near that position, instead I spawn into a clusterfuck far from that person.

                                 

                                Maybe you were near some action, maybe I'm wrong and it's strictly revenge spawning. Regardless I know that it's putting focusing spawns near the action and it's not utilizing all the spawn points on the map but rather just on specific part.

                      • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...

                        I'm content with having to run to the action if I don't die right off the spawn.

                          • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                            scotland-rules

                            Spoil-t wrote:

                             

                            I'm content with having to run to the action if I don't die right off the spawn.

                            Exactly.

                             

                            MW2 did this, you'd often have to sprint 15 or so seconds.

                              • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                ghamorra

                                That match I referenced on Tremor I spawned and went straight to ADS. I got on a 10 killstreak without a break from the action as both teams were spawning in this one corner near the downed helicopter. Then when I died again I proceeded to die 8 more times.

                                 

                                I've played TDM games where the match lasts less than 5 minutes on Whiteout. When the spawning conditions are right the game will lock both teams in a corner of the map by the saw mill and both teams are spawning inside of gun fights. It's like Black Ops II chaos all over again.

                            • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                              dtuchpunk

                              I get you. Happens to much that you get shot almost directly after spawning. Even in dom when your team has 2 flags. On some maps first I turn 180 degrees and lay down. 50% change of a kill

                              • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...

                                The spawns on whiteout are just plain nuts, tho for me i always seem to spawn at the heli more than the mill. Spawned with an enemy there earlier in a game, fortunately for him i was spawned ahead of him by a few feet took one step and died. Why the start spawn in the village area is not used i just don't understand, got to be the safest place on the map to spawn people. The other big offender for me is Overlord, either spawn at the hanger or by the pipes. I've been shot in the back more times on this map than i have from ahead i swear.

                                  • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                    ghamorra

                                    Sovereign is my least favorite but I don't really know what to do about that map. For someone reason the spawns are all over the place but at the same time in perfect position for me to die. I rarely see someone come out of that map with a high K/D. Most of the time I call it a great game if I leave with a 2.0 and that's hard to do.

                                  • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                    biron_w

                                    I've noticed there seem to be limited places to spawn and on the bigger maps it's just ridiculous. I've even noticed that the game rarely spawns you inside a building. If the game did this it would probably help a lot. If you spawn in front of somebody but instead of spawning you in front of them the game spawned 2 feet backwards behind the wall you've just spawned in front of then you won't have been spawn killed.

                                    In games like TDM,KC and FFA then the you should be able to spawn in any part of the map. The entire map should be split into grids and you should be able to spawn in any of the grid squares and inside a building upstairs OR downstairs.

                                      • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                        RunAndGun1

                                        biron_w wrote:

                                         

                                        I've even noticed that the game rarely spawns you inside a building. If the game did this it would probably help a lot. If you spawn in front of somebody but instead of spawning you in front of them the game spawned 2 feet backwards behind the wall you've just spawned in front of then you won't have been spawn killed.

                                        In games like TDM,KC and FFA then the you should be able to spawn in any part of the map. The entire map should be split into grids and you should be able to spawn in any of the grid squares and inside a building upstairs OR downstairs.

                                        Spawning inside buildings or in corners out of view would dramatically help with gameplay. Why they haven't set this up boggles the mind.

                                         

                                        Although I do believe, as others have pointed out, that they are trying to keep people close to the action. I get it. But, it doesn't work 99% of the time. More often then not I'm killed seconds after I spawn because of the so-called spawn logic. Then there are also times when I've spawned away from everyone on the opposite side of the map away from any action. Which is fine. I'd rather have time to think then have to worry about getting killed two seconds after I spawn. That's what made BO2 a complete failure to me. Tiny maps with horrible spawns = no time to think. So where's the fun if you don't have time to plan your attacks?

                                      • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                        OUHATEME

                                        If they had theatre mode I could just imagine the amount of spawn death clips, montages .After getting killed immediately at spawn twice they finally had one of them spawn in front of me. I smiled said to myself yeah it's about time shot them only to have one of there team to spawn right behind me before I could enjoy being on the good side of it for once. It hasn't ruined it for me but it can give you the wtf moments once in awhile.

                                          • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                            ghamorra

                                            Last night, on Termor again, I spawned into 4 deaths in less than 3 seconds. I couldn't tell one death apart from the other. It was HC so I didn't have the chance to watch the killcams but after a bunch of quick twitching screens I looked at the Scoreboard and noticed I had 4 more deaths than I did before.

                                             

                                            I also once spawned in the middle of a gunfight. Since it was HC my teammate died from shooting me and I died from the guy shooting him.

                                          • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...

                                            ghamorra wrote:

                                             

                                            The solution to spawns just seems obvious

                                             

                                            No, actually you understand that it is not a matter of using all the spawn points on a map. The biggest problem with this game is how it decides to spawn players near enemies. I don't want them to have a million spawn points, sure they need more than 2, but regardless, they need to spawn people AWAY from enemies. If you HAVE to spawn someone near an enemy, at least spawn them in the area with the most team mates.

                                             

                                            All you people saying that BLOPS2 spawns are just as bad need to go back and play it. You will feel so relaxed when you play because you won't constantly feel like someone is spawning right behind you.

                                              • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                                ghamorra

                                                Sannji wrote:

                                                 

                                                All you people saying that BLOPS2 spawns are just as bad need to go back and play it. You will feel so relaxed when you play because you won't constantly feel like someone is spawning right behind you.

                                                There's nothing relaxing about Black Ops II and the spawns in that game were far worse. The fact that you could lock down a spawntrap and continually aim in one spot and rack up infinite kills is one of it's many flaws.

                                                 

                                                Ghosts spawns are just dumbfounding. The fact that there's a whole map open to players in and they continually focus the spawning in just one small portion is nothing more than an obvious flaw. Players are frustrated because there's so many other places to safely spawn in yet they don't get that.

                                                  • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...

                                                    First of all, you cannot compare the two games in terms of maps. The only maps in BLOPS2 where spawn traps happen easily are the very small maps. Just from map size alone, if one team is dominating, you cannot avoid spawn trapping.

                                                     

                                                    Secondly, I would take spawn trapping over random spawning any day. Even when you got spawn trapped in BLOPS2 because spawns were predictable, at least you know where people were. You could spawn, you might die from someone camping the spawn, but when you spawned again, chances are you could kill them because you knew where they were. BLOPS2 also was very good at spawning you with your mates, so spawn trappers would eventually be over run unless they were really coordinated as a team. And even then, when the whole enemy team is on one spawn point, you will eventually spawn on the other side of the map.

                                                     

                                                    The problem with Ghost is not the spawn trapping, it is the logic. There is no predictability or logic to it, people just seem to spawn in weird places. I should not be running with my team mates and have someone spawn literally 1 second behind me, in an area that is in the middle of the map. This makes it impossible to predict what direction the enemy is spawning.

                                                     

                                                    If you add in a bunch of different spawn points, you will get a horrible game. Because you have no idea where people are spawning. You can spawn, run a little and die from someone spawning behind you. Or you will be in the middle of the map, and people will spawn behind you. You will be very very quickly surrounded my enemies because of spawning, making everyone just hug the edges of the maps.....which is what kind of happens now....

                                                     

                                                    Give me predictable spawns, even if it might lead to spawn trapping. Because at least that way for both sides, you can predict where the enemy is coming from. Push to hard towards one side of the map and they will spawn on the other side. Easy. And for people who spawn, they know that the enemy is somewhere towards the other side of the map and they can anticipate that as they push towards that side.

                                                      • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                                        ghamorra

                                                        I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not asking for random spawn points, I'm asking for spawn logical to use the entire map and not focus spawns where the action is.

                                                         

                                                        For instance, on Whiteout, both team will spawn on the side of the map where the mill is. Regardless of how many times you die or where the enemy is, both teams will continually spawn near the mill and only near the mill

                                                         

                                                        What it should do is spawn players away from the action enough for them to safely make the decision to continue and fight the battle over the mill or take so other action.

                                                         

                                                        There are spawnpoints near the helicopter and the lodges. Why doesn't the game use those?

                                                         

                                                        I see what you're saying about random, unpredictable spawns. Sovereign has some of the most random spawns in the game. You'll come back to life in the middle of an open room or in a location with 7 different hallways. It's confusing and far too random.

                                                  • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                                    IndyOldGuy

                                                    Stonehaven is ridiculous, if you spawn in that top corner in the roofless building and run about 20 yards, turn around because an enemy will spawn right behind you, also, the castle, so many players just sit at that top end and watch people spawn in, totally garbage spawns.

                                                      • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                                        rainmaker6

                                                        Yep in the castle is the worst. I don't do it unless the other team does it first. And on a recent match where Stonehaven came up twice and the other team had 2 snipers camp the far end of the castle the first game, I did it to them the second game. They were so smuge when that map was selected again. Then I took out 12 in the first 2 minutes and they fell way behind and the game was essentially over. Of all the spawns this one is the worst.

                                                      • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...

                                                        ive tried to think about the fact that for every crappy spawn i get il catch someone else in the same situation so it sort of equals its self out but the past week has been a nitemare i get at least 5 crappy spawn deaths per match like today i was spawned right next to a enemy ims then again right in front on a sentry gun

                                                        • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                                          devildogj

                                                          Have to agree, these are the worst spawns in any game... ever! I don't understand how I can consistently get spawned on or next to ied's, ims, or my favorite right in front of the entire enemy team. This really is the biggest reason this game is not fun to play.  

                                                          • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...
                                                            Doctorpsylus

                                                            maybe a 3 second cloak (player flashes so cannot be hit) ?

                                                            i cannot see a way round it unless you have a no go area which then invites spawn camping & defeats the object of freedom & the random part of the game.

                                                            OR everyone respawns ......that sounds mental i know but maybe there`s a new  game in it

                                                            • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...

                                                              Why do I not get bad spawns? I do, but not to the extent where I have to complain. And I don't mean complain in a bad way. I am being honest when I say I get very few bad spawns.

                                                               

                                                              I will agree that spawns are the worst on Stonehaven. People always spawn in the corner with the roofless building. Even though all the action is there.

                                                               

                                                              Two things would fix the spawns.

                                                              1. Allow spawning in buildings, as someone else mentioned

                                                              2a. Fully allow all of the maps be spawn points by...

                                                              2b. Using smart math to just spawn you a set and safe distance away from enemies

                                                               

                                                              As an illustration of point #2, I would just say spawn people on the the edge of the map where the mean distance to an enemy is the greatest. That might be too far, but it helps.

                                                               

                                                              All the enemies on Stonehaven sticking to the top corner with the aforementioned roofless building and the C-flag except for one guy camping the castle and B-flag? This logic would NEVER put you in the castle. Oh, another guy patrolling the ruins near A-flag? Spawn in the building between the castle and C-flag that no one ever uses or IN that section of castle so the guy camping B has NO chance of getting you.

                                                                • Re: Not to whine about spawns again but...

                                                                  You want bad spawns. Do this:

                                                                   

                                                                  Play only TDMfor a day.

                                                                  Play only with random people.

                                                                   

                                                                  You will see that in TDM, without parties, there is no cooperation or teamwork, people spread out and go offf by themselves, and boom, you will see crazy bad spawning. Also, watch the killcams. It will show you how the enemy spawned right around the corner and shot you in the back.