24 Replies Latest reply: Feb 7, 2014 12:51 AM by TheDarkOne123 RSS

    SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)

    Fang_1192

      So you all hate the RS/C4/DC/Kastet set up, right? You hate explosions because they are skill less and you want more gun on gun gameplay, right?

       

      So why is something like this perfectly ok?

       

      Granted, the first 1:00 is annoying but there really isn't a case. It opens with him using thermal  and his teammate about to throw his own C4. The second kill could have easily been done with a gun. The 3rd and 4th kill as well but would be riskier The 5th kill on Prison Break was him just sucking with the shotgun. The 6th kill has him with his Grenade Launcher out, so does the 7th kill on Warhawk. The 8th kill on Overlord is him spamming his semi auto terribly completely oblivious to the guy in front of him. Most of his gameplay where he dies, the shield is pretty much irrelevant - he is just butthurt about being blown up by someone who just has a Riot Shield equipped.

       

      His retaliation? More explosions - and his first kill at 1:20, when he goes all ""shield justice"" is against a player who SHOT him. I do realize that some form of explosive may be necessary to deal with the shield but he isn't doing so against just shield users.

       

      You guys complain about all the RS/C4 BS, but then laud someone like him who indiscriminately blows up shield and nonshield users alike makes me question you. The riot shield is barely playing a role in most of the kills. You complain about the range of C4 and Strong Arm (which I agree is over the top) but DC grenade launchers and using the C4/DC/Strong Arm tactic yourself w/o the shield is fine apparently (3:27 in the vid, he uses his own C4). In that video, I counted 4 maybe 5 or 6 bullet kills.

       

      IDK maybe the commenters on the vid are his toadies and subscribers, but seriously you guys are using the same tactics you decry minus the shield. Seems hypocritical that you don't like being blown up but have no problem walking around with a DC grenade launcher out.

       

      I do think that RS/C4/DC combo is horrifically strong in Search, but not because of the riot shield. C4 is just the perfect explosive limited only by its quantity which is alleviated by the way Search is played.

       

      Help me understand this, what I consider misdirected, anger at the riot shield when you clearly just hate being blown up. It's like if I complained a sniper rifle, when I get killed by a pistol.

       

      Edit: I AM BLATANTLY AND EXAGGERATINGLY GENERALIZING. Please move past that. I realize not all of you play like that but the video is an example of "Shield Justice" where the blame is placed squarely on the riot shield even though it is largely irrelevant to the majority of the deaths the uploader suffered. It is the explosives and Danger Close that are the problem, and if you read the rest of the topic, you will see my reply to firesens where I state I want the nerfs to be more focused on Danger Close over the Riot Shield.

       

      Message was edited by: Fang_1192

        • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)
          matuzz

          Generalizing much?

           

          C4/Shield combo is a OP setup. Do I use tubes to deal with them? No. Why? Because its lame and not a fix

          They honestly need to deal with the C4 range and damage because right now its just turns into no skill explosive fest..

            • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)
              Fang_1192

              True, I am generalizing a lot.

               

              But, on topic, is RS/C4 OP because of the Shield? Is the shield itself OP? If yes, explain how the shield is OP (I have honestly never gotten a straight answer as to why the Shield ITSELF is OP). If no, why the hell are people trying to get the shield nerfed?


                • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)
                  matuzz

                  No one is really saying that the shield is OP by itself its just the setup. Shield makes them invulnerable while the strong arm C4 has insane range and demolishes the flack jacket. And because of the animations they can toss the C4 while basically staying perfectly in cover.

                    • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)
                      Fang_1192

                      Here's the thing - there are more calls and complaints about the Riot Shield than there is about C4 or Danger Close. By your admittance, the shield isn't OP, so why aren't there more people, or at least more vocal opinions, that claim C4/DC needs to be nerfed? Why do most of the proposed changes target the Riot Shield?

                       

                      It always:

                      • AP rounds should penetrate the Shield
                      • The Shield Radar needs to be slowed down
                      • The Shield should expose the user more
                      • The Shield is meant to be a support tool.
                      • Shield and C4 shouldn't be used together

                       

                      Do these changes "fix" the problem with RS/C4 in Search? Yes, but at the expense of the Riot Shield in every other game mode. There are fewer calls to balance/nerf C4 probably because people blatantly use and abuse it like in the video that was embedded.

                • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)

                  The biggest problem is danger close.  I am surprised it was brought in the game again!

                  • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)
                    brsox

                    Great video! Why does it bug you so much? I don't understand.

                    • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)
                      Firesens

                      Who said we all play like this?

                        • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)
                          Fang_1192

                          I admit, I am generalizing.

                           

                          But his video is blatantly showing that DC/Explosives is as bad or worse than RS/C4. Honestly, I just want to see calls for riot shield nerfs to end, and put the blame squarely on Danger Close. I listed some typical balance suggestions I have seen in reply to matuzz.

                           

                          Edit: argument -> balance suggestions.

                            • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)
                              TheDarkOne123

                              If Danger Close is removed or nerfed then I want all guns to be double the bullets it takes to get a kill or better yet they only fire while moving. Seriously there is two counters that guarantee surviving explosives notice how every one he killed wasn't moving fast or they weren't moving at all. Also Blast Shield helps and so does the Trophy System I love how players refuse to adapt and actually use the counters provided to them.

                          • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)

                            TThe primary objective of SND/R is "search"ing for enemies. Being able to walk around the map and detect enemies with constant radar pings is totally against the spirit of SND/R. I would have far less of a problem with R's/c4 pansies if they didn't have the Radar attachment.

                             

                            IF they got rid of RS radar, DC, kastet/Launcher, C4, and IEDs, this might be my favorite COD. As of now, search modes are completely compromised. Public matches need to move slightly in the direction of esports rules.

                            • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)
                              Tygrastic1


                              I worry about the Dev's ability to get something like this right.  Obviously, you and I went the rounds in another thread where we had conflicting ideas.  I spent some time the past week using the RS/C4 in all the other game modes as well as using the Riot Shield with an Overkill class.  While the RS provides quite a bit of utility in other modes (collecting tags, capping flags, etc.), I tend to agree that it should be left alone.  The only time it shines as an overpowered setup is in S&R/D when paired with DC & C4.  It is unfortunate that the loadout MUST take up one of my CaC choices since I spent most of my time playing the mentioned game mode.  This loadout is REQUIRED if you are going for the 'B' bomb site on Overlord and it falls to me to play it.  I got a quad kill last night just outside the door using it.  My team was laughing, other team was raging and I was facepalming since I loathe the setup.

                               

                              I don't agree with the tweaking of the IED (I am sure I am the minority).  It was easy enough to deal with and counter.  They didn't need to add the ability to jump over or prone under the explosion.  The reason I bring this up, is I don't know if they can get the adjustment to the C4 right either.  Tone down the damage too much and it is as worthless as the IED.  Adjusting the explosive range would at least add somewhat of a skill factor for throwing it and trying to place it.

                               

                              In line with the other statements, why not restrict the use of 'Danger Close' within S&R/D?  The setup can still keep its lethality in the other modes all the while not inflicting the penalty of a single death in Search.  Restrict that perk and Blast Shield is actually useful, the spam decreases and survivability increases.  I have yet to see someone throwing nades or semtex using DC in Search, so I don't think it is used much without RS/C4.

                               

                              *I had more to add, but am late for a District Meeting.  Will try and finish my thoughts when I get back.

                                • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)
                                  Fang_1192

                                  I am not a fan of obvious restrictions. I would rather just buff the hell out of blast shield and change the C4 detonate shortcut to still pull out the clacker.

                                   

                                  Also, C4 should be nerfed, it is a better grenade then every other grenade. Great killing radius, absolute control, and a generous throwing distance obsoletes semtex, frags, and canister bombs - strong arm and Danger close only exacerbate the problem. It's a placeable explosive that never hits the ground or any other surface because everyone airbursts the damn thing.

                                    • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)

                                      I don't think the C4 nor the RS should be nerfed. But the detonate shortcut must be removed COMPLETELY. It takes less than a second to throw and detonate the C4, which is way faster than the animation itself. And maybe they should also nerf the reflex perk when wearing a RS.

                                       

                                      That's the only reason why I think the RS/C4 set up is OP.

                                      • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)
                                        TheDarkOne123

                                        Or instead of nerfing the C4 you should buff all of the other grenades cause isn't a matter of the C4 being too strong it's a matter of the other grenades being too weak same with the Tactical grenades they are too weak. I love how you so quick to nerf something when there are many counters in this game to explosives.

                                    • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)
                                      Bielsalmighty

                                      Allow me to just interject here - explosives are THE best way to deal with shielders. Now, if you take away or lessen the effectiveness of Danger Close, and they wear Blast Shield, that severely hinders their direct counter. Nerfing DC or explosives only makes it harder to kill them.

                                      • Re: SnD/R Players - Explain this for me. (RS/C4)

                                        Shield/C4 is way OP, and it's shameful Infinity Ward hasn't patched it.  It's ruined the best game mode.