24 Replies Latest reply: Feb 9, 2014 5:59 AM by maccabi RSS

    A new format for Clan Wars

    Cable99

      After talking with  guys in my clan last night we hit on a new format for Clan Wars that might make it more interesting, not to mention intense.

       

      What we'd like to propose is instead of being able to single out a node style of play and overwhelm it with grinding, we establish 2 moshpits- one Hard core and one Core. Each war would have nodes evenly divided between the two categories, as in 4 HC nodes and 4 Core nodes-but the VOTING in the moshpit would be the only way to choose which node you are going for. Also, it would keep a clan from swarming a single, high-paying node that played into their specialty or preferred game mode from dominating that mode for the entire clan war.

       

      Why Do This?: It would give clans that can't all be on in an organized fashion at the same time from being shut out by a clan that can field all of their players at the same time. Example: My clan faced a Euro PS3/4 clan last War. They would come on around 2 in the afternoon in droves-18 to 24 players at a time. My clan has night shift workers and day shift workers, so we struggled to get 3+ teams rolling at the same time outside of Friday nights. We had a single team +1 playing before the game on Super Bowl Sunday. After grinding out HC S&R for 2 hours and getting within 14 pts left of 60 of taking the node, the Euro team hit the game with 3 full teams -and in two rounds they passed us by 2 and snatched the node. All of my guys quit playing in disgust-what was the point? We knew they would jump on any node we played and swamp us with numbers-we had no real chance.  My clan gave up by the last day because we couldn't put 18 16yr olds into play at one time- we all have jobs and real lives- and the lead clan had over 600cp. Given that their tactics were to see which node a clan was battling for and then swamping it with players to steal it, we all felt it had become futile. With the moshpit format, at least we would have had a chance.

       

      FEEDBACK?

        • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
          iHattoriHanzo0

          To be honest, I'm just getting a full understanding of Clan Wars now. I'll admit I've been slow in understanding the system. It most definitely awards strength in numbers. So for clans that are disorganized, or just cant get their teams together, it certainly takes them out the race.

           

          I think you have some good ideas. I don't think any changes will be made to the layout for this title. If the creators of the wars didn't already think of what you're saying, maybe it will an option for them to consider next time.

            • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
              nuttin2say

              I'm in the same boat with you Hattor. Just getting into it and just starting to figure it all out. There are two things I already like about Clan Wars. First, this is a great place for parties/clans to be. All the banter about how great players are can genuinely be tested in Clan Wars because you're genuinely going up against another group that is also communicating & working together. I have to say, my "clan" is just my brother and me ... we end up getting paired with two other guys that are representing their clan as a pair only and ... it gets ugly. Oh, we lose. But we lose to teams that genuinely are better skilled. Most matches, however, parties are learning the hard way that ... party =/= skill.

               

              I also like the removal of streak rewards in the game. Normally I blast MLG for removing aspects of the game when in competition. Last time I checked, however, MLG did not remove streak rewards, just certain guns, lethals, tacticals - things like that. eSports definitely has a leg up on MLG because of this format. Clan Wars are strictly about player vs. player and gun vs. gun - a true test of overall skill (physical + mental agility).

               

              One other thing I like about it is that TDM is separate from objective modes. Objective modes are much more similar to each other than I think the community usually acknowledges. Anyway, for the first time in my COD career ... I've actually enjoyed playing S&D. I don't know why it plays better in Clan Wars, but it does.

               

              On the topic of the thread, offhand I would say that voting in Clan Wars has its limitations. Immediately there is the obvious issue of a team not being united as to which mode/node/map it wants to play. The opposing team instantly has an advantage: they know the disorganized team is ... disorganized. As for the rest of the proposals, I'm not yet familiar enough with Clan Wars to make a decision. From what I've seen so far, though, I'd prefer it stay as it is.

                • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                  Cable99

                  I figure the voting in the moshpit will resolve itself. Most times, the vote is lop-sided. However, with the impetus of Clan War goals, this could prove to change. A "smart" clan would be constantly monitoring the app to see which game modes would be of immediate benefit and vote accordingly. "Stupid" clans would just vote towards their favorite mode.

                   

                  nicedrewishfela Production Administrator greencoffin72 rankismet Re: Fox hound pro / Claire jeep chick

                  • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                    iHattoriHanzo0

                    It sounds to me like you are also referring to Clan vs Clan playlist, correct? I personally haven't entered that mode since I never have 4 clan members together.

                     

                    We all just get on when we can and stick to the public playlists, hoping we go up against randoms. During the Wars, even the public playlist is filled with other clans.

                      • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                        nuttin2say

                        You only need 1. And let me tell you a funny story about mismatched teams.

                         

                        We started to do Clan Wars TDM tonight, but the first three matches were a laughingstock. Particularly the first one. Get this. The first lobby had a 3 person party, a 2 person party, and two solo guys. So, after waiting forever for an 8th player, I kid you not, the 3 man party ... backs out of the lobby as soon as they spawn. Why? Because their 4th man ended up being the guy with the worst stats in the lobby. Well, no way my bro & I were backing out - guaranteed win. Then, just as quickly, another random gets dropped into the lobby on the side with just 1 man. They start off losing, naturally, 6 to 1. Again, we assumed the win and actually just started goofing off. Well, one guy on our team was still all serious and proceeds to get slaughtered by the one guy on the other team. So that guy on our team backs out. Bro & I get serious again because the score tightens up and then the late arrival to the lone wolf team backs out. We had a really hard time playing because we were laughing so hard. Even my wife was telling me to quiet it down I was laughing so hard. By the end of the match, the lone wolf on the other guy was still there - by himself, me and my bro were still there, the score ends 19 to 17 in our favor, and we had lost our initial third man but picked up a new third man.

                         

                        I felt bad. The lone wolf guy had the true final kill, but because he lost it didn't show in the final kill cam. And he had a glorious ending. My bro and I had decided to "sneak" up on the guy and let him think he was about to kill me while my bro knifed him from behind. LOL. Best laid plans ... So I end up actually chasing the lone wolf guy over half of Sovereign without him even realizing I am LITERALLY bumping into him from behind. He manages to round a corner to see my bro and catches bro by surprise (because we were laughing so hard). The lone wolf kills my bro and 180s to regroup. That's when he discovers me - and knifes me cold! But wait! There's more! By this time, our final third man has caught up to the fray and has opened fire on the lone wolf guy ... but somehow the lone wolf guy manages to kill our third man, as well.

                         

                        I haven't had such a good laugh playing COD in a looooong time. Guy kills an entire opposing team of three in about 3 seconds to end the game. He should have gotten the final kill cam just for the glory of his luck. We won, but just for being a good sport he should have been awarded the win.

                         

                        The funny part? I have a 1.9 or so TDM kdr, bro has a 1.7 or so TDM kdr, and I don't know what the 3rd guy had. But the lone wolf?

                         

                        He had a 0.44 kdr. That's why the 3 man party backed out. Granted, we were not being serious in any way, but the guy never gave up and he held his own.

                         

                        Best match of COD I've had in Ghosts so far.

                         

                        Sadly, the next two matches also had parties that backed out as soon as they got down by 6 or 7 kills at the start of the match. They were boring matches, though.

                  • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                    OUHATEME

                    Your talking about a strategy that they used to win the clan war. Yes if you have enough people it is a strategy to watch the others take a node down and then go after it quick way to add points, also since this is "clan wars" deterring the other clans from competing makes it easier to win.. So when taking down a node don't take it all the way down unless you have your team ready to go for it . Only take it down to 3 I say three because that is as low as you can take it without it flashing red. Once you have your full crew then go after it. If you haven't won a clan war yet there are several threads on strategies on how to win one. I don't think to win you should be allowed to vote and stay in a comfort zone. The clans that win play all game modes core and hardcore even though they don't like them all. I have to say it does make me a better player. You saw what they did to win take from that and use some of it in your next clan war. I really don't agree with asking for lesser competition, what happens when your the clan on top and the others are making a thread because of how you won. Our last clan war the clan we were against used similar tactics against us ,we recognized it and had to adjust accordingly they pushed us till the end and either of us couldve won it. Even though we did I have nothing but respect for how they played , it is how it should be done. There is actually a lot of strategy that goes on in a clan war it is not just get online and win. Just offering a different perspective . Good luck in the next one.

                    • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                      maccabi

                      i really dont get the idea do you mean split the war between hc and core or vote to see what nodes are in the war?

                        • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                          Cable99

                          We know the strategy(s). We played very smart and monitored progress the whole way. We went for whatever mode made sense. Perching within 3 of a node made zero sense last war because the Euro team could snatch 40-50 wins in no time at all. We did the math-they were averaging 3.2wins per minute for the first two hours. We had 3 teams on the 360, a 4 man team on the ONE and won ALL of our games in HC DOM. It took us 25 minutes to grab a node. They grabbed 4 in the first 2 hours, with the first two falling in under 20 minutes.

                          We had 246cp at the end of the war. We came in 4th. The Euros had over 600cp- easily 200+ more than the second place team. We missed 3rd by a couple cp. Because the Euros took over all but one node in under an hour and a half right at the end- putting everything out of reach due to a lack of time left in the War. It was ridiculous. With a moshpit format, you have to be more strategic and keep your eye on multiple modes at all times.

                            • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                              OUHATEME

                              I Must be missing something. We already have to keep an eye on all nodes. We have to pick our order in which we go after each node while paying attention to what the other clans are doing. I don't see the being more strategic on a moshpit format I see it more of a I hope I get this if not back out try again because I already have that..A roll of the dice type format hoping one of what you need pops up in the vote.  If I'm looking at this wrong please correct me because right now I'm not seeing it as being more strategic at all. Are you saying a clan can only go into one mosh pit either core or hardcore at a time? I also don't get the restrict a clan that has active players by not allowing them to go after whatever they want. My clan stays less than 10 members and if anyone isnt active everyone else feels it. With some of the bigger clans where they may have many more inactive members why should the clans with active members have to change there play?  Again if I am missing something please let me know.

                            • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                              Cable99

                              No, Macc- have 8 nodes in a war, more or less like it is now. 4 HC and 4 Core. Have 2 moshpits that you enter when playing in clan wars-either HC or Core. You don't get to send 4 of your teams at a single node to swamp it, though-you're in a moshpit and the modes are rotating randomly. Thus, you need to choose wisely to further your team's goals.

                            • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                              maccabi

                              Do you mean one of the nodes is a moshpit in game or thr node itself is a moshpit still not getting this concept sorry

                                • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                                  Cable99

                                  The nodes stay the same-individual, requiring their own number of wins to take them, like 60 wins to take HC S&R. But instead of going to HC playlist and selecting S&R you would go to a playlist called HC Clan War, which would be a moshpit format. Only games within that moshpit would count for the war. Ditto under Core- you'd have Clan War, which would also be a moshpit style list.

                                   

                                  Look, with the start time on a Wed at 12pm Pacific, most of my clan was working/at school. We still managed to field 18 players on the 360 and 4 on the one-so 22 people. It took most of a half hour for everyone to batter their way to taking the HC DOM node. I think it was worth 14cp. Meanwhile, the Euro clan in our division in the same time period somehow produced 48cp. They used overwhelming numbers to swamp the nodes. So there we were, right out of the gate, needing 40 HCKC wins just to knock them off that one node, then another 40 to take it-so 80 wins. Divided by 22, that's about 4 rounds for the weakest node, call it 45 minutes. Meanwhile, they swamped Core Dom, took HCS&R, and swiped Hunted-leaving us needing about 280 wins to dislodge them from those nodes. Another clan pushed us out of HC DOM when we were one win away from seizing it. So we had 0 cp after half an hour, needed 40 wins to remove the 2cnd clan from HC DOM( +1 to take it ourselves). By the time we did, we were 70+ points behind the leader and we needed about 360 wins just to push them off what they had-and they weren't done playing by any means. At least with the moshpit format, communication and planning would pay off more. That's all I'm saying. Because even if a clan decided to keep backing out until they got the mode they wanted, it would eat up time -and that's a tactical decision they would have to make.

                                • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                                  OUHATEME

                                  Might get a lot more feedback here GHOSTS CLANS DISCUSSIONS

                                  • Re: A new format for Clan Wars

                                    Moshpits in general are not liked by the overall player base. having it in a moshpit format would annoy lots of players not wanting to have to fight over which map and game mode to play on. Not every clan tries to control every node in a clan war.

                                      • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                                        Cable99

                                        Dragon, as Ran says, "If we told Dragon it was sunny he'd say, 'Not here.' " Take your pessimism elsewhere. It serves no real purpose except to let a small mind think it's important.

                                          • Re: A new format for Clan Wars

                                            Not being pessimistic. be honest and truthful. the general player base would not accept such a change and would complain about, the same as they did in BO1 when Bomb's and Flag's was tried. They don't care of how it might be better for matchmaking. They would not want it. For most do not like having to fight over map and then game mode where which ever team had the most players in the lobby would always get control over it.

                                             

                                            Nice try with the feeble insult. you did not even scratch a scale with it. So really your reply was the small mind trying act like it was the important one which in truth it is not.

                                        • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                                          Guy8915

                                          Absolutely ridiculous idea. I fail to see how this would solve anything. it would create more problems than solve. The best way is for you to drop any inactive members or recruit some 16 yr old kids as you put it. my entire clan also have lives (jobs,wives,kids,pets)  but we still manage to win ours and have at least 2 full parties of 6 on most nights for at least 3 hours

                                            • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                                              Cable99

                                              Guy8915 wrote:

                                               

                                              Absolutely ridiculous idea. I fail to see how this would solve anything. it would create more problems than solve. The best way is for you to drop any inactive members or recruit some 16 yr old kids as you put it. my entire clan also have lives (jobs,wives,kids,pets)  but we still manage to win ours and have at least 2 full parties of 6 on most nights for at least 3 hours

                                              You would have ended up in 6th place in our division last war with that small of an active player base. The leaders had 600+cp! You miss the point. When my clan was active, we had 3 other clans also playing for the nodes. But when the Euro clan was active, everyone else was inactive. So we ended up fighting against clans that were also trying to grab the same nodes-but the Euros had no competition and no other active clans fighting for the same nodes. Now, with a moshpit format, they would have to put more time in to grab a node, instead of rolling over everything as if it was nothing. That would have given those of us living on a different time frame an even chance. C'mon, 2 parties of 6? Dude, we had 18+ on from 4pmPST to midnight-and we still only scored 246cp for the war. Didn't you read what I wrote? Freakin OneOfSwords won his (Gold) division with 250cp. We came in 4th (Platinum) with 246. The moshpit concept would diffuse the "just run it over with numbers while no one else is playing" tactic that currently rules supreme. That's all I'm saying.

                                                • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                                                  OUHATEME

                                                  The numbers you keep referring to , clans are put up against other clans of similar size and skill. If a clan does not have a high percentage of active players why should they be able to compete against a clan that does? That is where being a clan leader comes into play if you want to win clan wars you need active members . If not you can still level up your clan by playing in groups. Why should they change the format to suit clans with inactive members? I have read numerous thread of people feeling they should win clan wars playing 1-2 hours a night and only one or two different nodes . With the scoring system changing each time they are making it possible for clans that fall behind in the beginning to come back. The first couple of clan wars were pretty much won the first day. The last few have added to the competition. I have seen other clans that have decided to only play one node for the five days and enjoy the in game bonus Xp . I actually like clan wars and how everybody counts ,not just the top six like we had with elite and clan ops. I like how everyone can play at there convienance not just for 3 hours on Saturday and Sunday . I like how they are changing it up a bit each week trying to find the best system. I don't like finding out at the last minute what those changes where though as it affects strategy . I get it not everyone cares for it and some prefer the old clan ops. The way it is now simple numbers no longer can be a benefit if they are not active they will prevent clans from winning. As far as a clan winning with 250 cp yes very plausible with some of the past scoring systems . We did it and still won by over 100 cp . We are going to give diamond a go just to see how it is.  I may have been grabbing on to the wrong thing but it seems your issue was they were playing at full force and your clan wasn't . I can agree coordinating a larger clan takes quite a bit but that was there choice when they increased the clan to that size and for those that haven't grasped or are unable to get that coordinated (for whatever reason) shouldn't have the rules changed to suit them. Clan War Divisions

                                              • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                                                Bielsalmighty

                                                Cable, should you guys not be questioning the wisdom behind joining such a large clan that fails to field its numbers effectively? I think you guys would have been better off in the lower playercount bracket.

                                                 

                                                Sorry, I dont think your idea works much at all. It takes away from the need to apply strategy, makes it totally luck-of-the-draw whether or not you'll string together enough wins on a certain gametype, lobby hopping would be beyond rife as people look for the gametype they want...

                                                 

                                                No, the current setup is miles better.

                                                • Re: A new format for Clan Wars
                                                  maccabi

                                                  It seems to me the idea you have come up with was mostly to solve the issue that you couldnt field everyone online at once and there was a euro clan in your war... surely dropping inactive members and having a time slot same as diamond division is introducing solves that issue?

                                                   

                                                  Having a moshpit as you suggested wouldn't solve any of the issues you experience, i'd say it would make things worse, you'd have lobby hopping constantly, there's too much luck involved and it doesn't address the fact of time zones.

                                                  i kinda get where you are coming from but other clans have faced exactly the same issues and changed their stategies to compensate or downsized