25 Replies Latest reply: Mar 5, 2014 3:44 PM by TheDarkOne123 RSS

    The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making

    Ovrlord

      A lot of people that I've talked with have said that what will kill this franchise are the campers, the amount of lag, quickscopers, people complaining about weapon/perk nerfs, and the massive boredom. Most of those topics are debatable, and some of them are doing a good job at bringing this franchise down after all. Aside from those topics, there are a few things that have happened with Ghosts release that have gave a really bad impression on the developers despite the fact that they've gotten enough from what they've done with the game in the first place.

       

      COD is the most popular fps out there. You know you're going to sell a lot of copies, so explain to me why there was a need to false advertise your game. It was specifically stated that we were going to get dedicated servers on ALL platforms. Well, where are they Infinity Ward? There are no dedicated servers on the xbox 360. I don't know the state for Sony's consoles, but that alone already contradicts what we've been told prior to this game's release. That's a pretty bold move coming from you, and I hope you get the backlash you deserve.

       

      You also felt the need to continue to milk money off of people through micro transactions. Yes, the goal of any business is to make money. I understand that, but there is a right way and a wrong way to go about doing so. A prime example of what I mean by this is charging us for extra custom classes. The maximum number of classes we could have in the past releases have been 10, so you all decided to lower that count to 6 in this game and charge us more to get that original count back. That's ridiculous. So while you insult us with that garbage, I would expect you to actually fix the problems in the game (spawns and as an example); however, the only thing you care about at the end of the day is how much money you can get from people through these absurd micro transactions and think you can get away with that through extra camos and custom classes. That alone makes me sick.

       

      If people continue to let these people get away with practices such as these, this will be how they will do business on future COD titles. I know I complained a lot on this thread, but I, as well as many others, will not condone being lied to continuously and having that micro transaction nonsense thrown at our faces and are expected to completely forget about the problems that should have been fixed before the official release. This is supposed to be the most popular, and for the amount of money we're paying to play, we should be treated better than this.

        • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
          gotsomestars

          As you've been told numerous times. They said hybrid system, which they are using.

          Also dlc is optional, always has been.

           

          Once again you are crying about nothing.

          Absolutely 100% worthless thread.

            • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
              Ovrlord

              Thanks for the response. That really "encourages" proper interaction. A simple "I disagree" would have been nicer, but now I'm a crier for expressing my opinion (and most likely fact) according to you. I'll choose not to stoop to that level just yet.

               

              There's in fact no dedicated servers on the xbox 360. You can tell me again and again that they're using a hybrid system and it wouldn't change anything. Saying something over and over again to someone does not make the statement true. There is more than enough evidence through what happens during gameplay to state that there are no dedicated servers. When I asked about this particular issue in the spawn feedback thread, users even acknowledged that the servers were not up and running. They knew that was the case because of what they experienced in game. Unless you can prove that we've been playing on dedicated servers, then you or anyone else can say they are using a hybrid system all you want to while no one will listen to you.

               

              I never said dlc wasn't optional. Ever think about why I put the word "future" in the title? The reason why I mentioned the custom class dlc in the first place was to not only expose what they were doing, but this is how they will do things in the future if this continues. What will stop them from taking away even more things that have been standard in the COD series and offering it as dlc in the future? These custom classes were only the first step.

               

              Threads can only be worthless to those who lack understanding.

                • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                  gotsomestars

                  It has been proven in this forum (try the search function) that users on ALL platforms (minus Wii) have connected to dedicated servers. So, like you said someone saying something doesn't make it true. But proof does. The only way to tell how many people are on dedis would be to have everyone monitor their connection, and that just won't happen. So, we can say that maybe there aren't many dedicated servers, but to say there are none is just false. As far as dlc goes, as long as its optional its no big deal. The extra CAC slots is a small step away from pay to win, I'll give you that. But it really ends there.

                    • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                      Ovrlord

                      If users on the Wii have not connected to dedicated servers, then why is the claim that false advertising wrong then? They did say that they were going to offer those on all platforms, so the Wii users should have been able to connect to them too, but you just stated that they didn't. You basically just proved my point regardless of anything else.

                       

                      I would like to think that they would not go any further than removing custom classes and charging them to get them back, but I can see them moving in that direction.

                    • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                      maccabi

                      Ovrlord wrote:

                       

                      Thanks for the response. That really "encourages" proper interaction. A simple "I disagree" would have been nicer, but now I'm a crier for expressing my opinion (and most likely fact) according to you. I'll choose not to stoop to that level just yet.

                       

                       

                      In fairness starting off with most people i talked to said .. then quoting the most popular fallacies just reads well to me at least you were disguising your own views as those of others .

                       

                      Ovrlord wrote:

                       

                       

                       

                      There's in fact no dedicated servers on the xbox 360. You can tell me again and again that they're using a hybrid system and it wouldn't change anything. Saying something over and over again to someone does not make the statement true. There is more than enough evidence through what happens during gameplay to state that there are no dedicated servers.

                      I would be interest what evidence there is just during gameplay to say you are not on a dedi.. at most you could say is i got a host migration so i wasn't on a dedi, or i didn't get a host migration so i could've been on a dedi.

                       

                      Ovrlord wrote:

                       

                      Unless you can prove that we've been playing on dedicated servers, then you or anyone else can say they are using a hybrid system all you want to while no one will listen to you.

                       

                       

                      Same arguement could be made by saying can you prove people arent, and with respect anecdotal evidence from people (judging by the comments we see time and time again on these forums) who dont have a clue isn't really evidence.

                      Given the amount of very tech savvy people who havent come out and demonstrated there isn't dedis says more than some joe bloggs saying i lagged ergo i wasnt on a dedi.

                       

                      and honestly if you think a billion dollar company would lie given the resulting crap storm that would cause then well...

                       

                      Ovrlord wrote:

                       

                      I never said dlc wasn't optional. Ever think about why I put the word "future" in the title? The reason why I mentioned the custom class dlc in the first place was to not only expose what they were doing, but this is how they will do things in the future if this continues. What will stop them from taking away even more things that have been standard in the COD series and offering it as dlc in the future? These custom classes were only the first step.

                       

                       

                      customization micro dlc isnt an issue its optional, and i dont have an issue with it at all, people buy it if they want it and its a good secondary revenue stream for atvi.. but i do agree with you on removing stuff to sell back like the slots this i firmly disagree with and is a direction that if cod choses to go i would not support the franchise any more

                        • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                          Ovrlord

                          It's not like they haven't been dishonest before. Remember when they said they were going to remove last stand from MW3? Obviously they didn't because it was put in the game in the form of final stand anyway. So yes, if you asked me would I think they would lie, look at their history and you can get a pretty clear answer there.

                           

                          To be fair, and this is just my opinion, but I don't feel as though my views are being disguised by other people's thinking. Yes, I did start off with saying by talking with other people, but I only went as far as to say what they were complaining about rather than the topics I used myself. If they're fallacies, so be it. I won't say you're wrong on that one, but some do appear to be problems within the community that have blown up ever since this game's release. That can be discussed on other topics though.

                           

                          You bring up something that could be a good idea though. Why don't those tech savvy people come on here and prove that we're on dedicated servers for the 360? If there's a thread that exists already on this topic, I wouldn't mind if that was shown to me. But as far as what has been seen gameplay wise and from the responses I've gotten by bringing these things up with a variety of people, then the conclusion that will be gotten is that something fishy is going on with those servers. People aren't just complaining for no reason. Some could have potentially legitimate concerns.

                    • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                      IndyOldGuy

                      People say titan fall will kill COD, not true, COD will kill itself if they keep going like this...

                      • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                        rlbl

                        Although I do not 100% agree with the specifics of your post (i.e. what they are milking us for), I totally agree 100% with what you are saying in principal.  If you look at the following thread:

                         

                        Re: god dammit, Activision, please change this.

                         

                        And my follow-up thread to it:

                         

                        Did the HE pre-subscribers just get hoodwinked?

                         

                        It basically details exactly what you are getting at (in spirit): We are being milked and not getting the value from what we pay for.  The business practices are a bit questionable... I (personally) feel they are taking advantage of our love for the game/series, and exploiting that desire to play to get extra coin out of the players.  The desire to maximize profits is not bad; but at least give people good value for their dollar.

                         

                        (It is like the 4th installment of Indiana Jones: people were so hyped at the return of Indy that they shoveled out a crap movie and called it ice cream)

                        • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                          Izjar11

                          Ovrlord wrote:

                           

                          A lot of people that I've talked with have said that what will kill this franchise are the campers, the amount of lag, quickscopers, people complaining about weapon/perk nerfs, and the massive boredom. Most of those topics are debatable, and some of them are doing a good job at bringing this franchise down after all. Aside from those topics, there are a few things that have happened with Ghosts release that have gave a really bad impression on the developers despite the fact that they've gotten enough from what they've done with the game in the first place.

                           

                          COD is the most popular fps out there. You know you're going to sell a lot of copies, so explain to me why there was a need to false advertise your game. It was specifically stated that we were going to get dedicated servers on ALL platforms. Well, where are they Infinity Ward? There are no dedicated servers on the xbox 360. I don't know the state for Sony's consoles, but that alone already contradicts what we've been told prior to this game's release. That's a pretty bold move coming from you, and I hope you get the backlash you deserve.

                           

                           

                           

                          The only thing that is killing (if that is something used to describe a games life cycle) is time itself, this game is not immortal to players evolving and getting bored with it. Like all great games, its end will be met, this happens to all things.

                           

                          In regards to your claim of False advertising, you really, and I man really should read things before writing without merit. The only thing false here is your claim of them telling lies.

                          Ovrlord wrote:

                           

                          You also felt the need to continue to milk money off of people through micro transactions. Yes, the goal of any business is to make money. I understand that, but there is a right way and a wrong way to go about doing so. A prime example of what I mean by this is charging us for extra custom classes. The maximum number of classes we could have in the past releases have been 10, so you all decided to lower that count to 6 in this game and charge us more to get that original count back. That's ridiculous. So while you insult us with that garbage, I would expect you to actually fix the problems in the game (spawns and as an example); however, the only thing you care about at the end of the day is how much money you can get from people through these absurd micro transactions and think you can get away with that through extra camos and custom classes. That alone makes me sick.

                           

                          If people continue to let these people get away with practices such as these, this will be how they will do business on future COD titles. I know I complained a lot on this thread, but I, as well as many others, will not condone being lied to continuously and having that micro transaction nonsense thrown at our faces and are expected to completely forget about the problems that should have been fixed before the official release. This is supposed to be the most popular, and for the amount of money we're paying to play, we should be treated better than this.

                          The extra class thing, well I have debated this with others and each of us see's it differently, I see it only as a convenience others as an advantage, overall I do agree they should not sell us what they provided before, similar to them "re-skinned" maps that are being resold to us.

                           

                          Your final paragraph well, its only a video game worth $60.00 dollars, how much "better" treatment do you want from a make believe thing in a virtual world, where all you do is use their software on their servers on their game? Abit exaggerated, but you have the right to feel as you do.

                            • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                              Ovrlord

                              As far as what I and many people that I talk with have experienced, we have not connected to anything like that. Plus, it's no surprise that people are making complaints about it in other places if there wasn't a legitimate concern with that issue. If my claim that they're false advertising is false, then explain to me why the Wii users did not receive anything such as what I'm describing if they said they were putting these servers on all platforms. ALL platforms.

                               

                              As for something I'm paying 60 bucks for, I expect for better service, better experiences, and more bang for my buck as they say. I don't want them to do as they did with the custom classes instead of prioritizing the issues that are ruining this game for many people. That's the better treatment that I'm talking about.

                                • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                  Izjar11

                                  Ovrlord wrote:

                                   

                                  As far as what I and many people that I talk with have experienced, we have not connected to anything like that. Plus, it's no surprise that people are making complaints about it in other places if there wasn't a legitimate concern with that issue. If my claim that they're false advertising is false, then explain to me why the Wii users did not receive anything such as what I'm describing if they said they were putting these servers on all platforms. ALL platforms.

                                   

                                  As for something I'm paying 60 bucks for, I expect for better service, better experiences, and more bang for my buck as they say. I don't want them to do as they did with the custom classes instead of prioritizing the issues that are ruining this game for many people. That's the better treatment that I'm talking about.

                                  If you can provide proof that everyone on the Wii is not on dedicated servers please do so because without it what your stating is simply a fabrication of what you want to believe and what some complain about ( I am not saying its at all possible, but how can you prove that some are on dedicated servers?)

                                   

                                  What did you expect exactly? Its a FPS, with the same kill / death issues with new maps, new guns.....Apart from things being the same, I agreed that they should not sell us what they provided before.

                                    • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                      Ovrlord

                                      Likewise, if you can provide proof that we've been connecting to dedicated servers all along, then please do so because without it you also could be stating a fabrication of what you want to believe and what some defend. In fact, I encourage you to try and prove me and everyone else wrong. If we are in fact playing on dedicated servers, then they would have some serious work to do in terms of connection. I'm pretty sure what is going on now concerning gameplay would be a joke if it were actually on dedicated servers, which I'm positive that is not the case since I believe they can do better than that.

                                       

                                      I don't really understand why most of you that posted in this thread think differently about the dedicated server issue. This is actually an issue that is widespread through the community. Not just here on the forums, but on other sites as well. You can downplay my concern for that matter as much as you'd like, but this many people aren't just going to come online and lie to people about it.

                                        • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                          Izjar11

                                          Ovrlord wrote:

                                           

                                          Likewise, if you can provide proof that we've been connecting to dedicated servers all along, then please do so because without it you also could be stating a fabrication of what you want to believe and what some defend. In fact, I encourage you to try and prove me and everyone else wrong. If we are in fact playing on dedicated servers, then they would have some serious work to do in terms of connection. I'm pretty sure what is going on now concerning gameplay would be a joke if it were actually on dedicated servers, which I'm positive that is not the case since I believe they can do better than that.

                                           

                                          I don't really understand why most of you that posted in this thread think differently about the dedicated server issue. This is actually an issue that is widespread through the community. Not just here on the forums, but on other sites as well. You can downplay my concern for that matter as much as you'd like, but this many people aren't just going to come online and lie to people about it.

                                          First: I wouldn't speak of a thing claiming I know they aren't on dedicated servers (as you did in this post) and then ask another to do so. So why should I provide proof when I am not the one with the obvious false claim? I never wrote anything saying it is so, I am simply bringing to your attention that your lack of proof is subject to falsehood and speculation.

                                           

                                          Because the majority who come here and write things speak out of ignorance, anger, arrogance, self belief that what they know is so when in reality it is not. Reason, your being questioned

                                            • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                              Ovrlord

                                              You stated that what I accused them of was false without any sort of proof. What makes you think simply saying something isn't true makes you correct? If my claim is obviously false, then you must have the means to prove that I am wrong. Nothing you're saying is making your statement true right now. Just because you simply tell someone, "That's false," does not mean anything. You still have not proved that anything I said wasn't incorrect, so your point currently is invalid. Not that it matters, but even someone that posted in this very thread said that the Wii users have not gotten dedicated servers. I'm not the only one that accused them of that, so truthfully, I should not be the only one that's being questioned especially when someone that disagreed with me said so.

                                               

                                              Wii U Version Of Call Of Duty Ghosts Will Eventually Have Dedicated Servers | My Nintendo News

                                               

                                              I have not seen anyone confirm that they delivered on that statement. Just saying. Now it's your turn to prove why this is wrong.

                                                • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                                  Izjar11

                                                  Ovrlord wrote:

                                                   

                                                  You stated that what I accused them of was false without any sort of proof. What makes you think simply saying something isn't true makes you correct? If my claim is obviously false, then you must have the means to prove that I am wrong. Nothing you're saying is making your statement true right now. Just because you simply tell someone, "That's false," does not mean anything. You still have not proved that anything I said wasn't incorrect, so your point currently is invalid. Not that it matters, but even someone that posted in this very thread said that the Wii users have not gotten dedicated servers. I'm not the only one that accused them of that, so truthfully, I should not be the only one that's being questioned especially when someone that disagreed with me said so.

                                                   

                                                  Wii U Version Of Call Of Duty Ghosts Will Eventually Have Dedicated Servers | My Nintendo News

                                                   

                                                  I have not seen anyone confirm that they delivered on that statement. Just saying. Now it's your turn to prove why this is wrong.

                                                  Its not a statement but fact, to claim something without proof! I'm not making things up. Making things up and then asking for proof of made up stories is not how you "prove" your right guy. HAHA good try though.

                                                   

                                                  I am not proving a point, im just not the one stating things as you are (your the OP of this thread).

                                                   

                                                  That article was posted 11/13/2014! those articles on the game were prevalent on all consoles.

                                                   

                                                  You can say what you wish, but without backup (since proof) is so hard to obtain its very hard to believe your claims of them falsifying advertising dedis.

                                                   

                                                  Good luck gaming.

                                                    • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                                      Ovrlord

                                                      I again ask you to prove that what I said wasn't correct. You still continue to avoid doing that. I just showed you proof of what I was talking about. Oh, and I'm pretty sure November 2014 hasn't happened yet, and I don't see how telling me the date (even though you got it wrong) proves anything you're saying. You've once again proven that none of you are capable of proving me wrong, yet you continue to act like I'm making things up. I showed proof just as you asked, and you refused to do the same.

                                                       

                                                      If you are not willing to accept it for what it is, then that's the decision that you make. As far as I'm concerned, when they continue to do these business practices in the future when a lot of you continue to give them money, I will happily come back here and make a nice long post explaining how I told you so. Good day sir.

                                          • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                            rlbl

                                            If you look at my post example, there have been instances of "false advertising"

                                          • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                            rankismet

                                            Ovrlord wrote:

                                             

                                            A lot of people that I've talked with have said that what will kill this franchise are the campers, [...]

                                             

                                            Honestly... I stopped caring about the rest of your post right there. For me, it invalidates any point you may be attempting to make because of the foundations of your perspective.

                                             

                                            Why?

                                             

                                            If the first point you make for COD being killed is "camping"... it's not worth the time on the rest.

                                             

                                            ATVI has certainly endangered their golden goose...

                                            ... but it's not because of campers.

                                              • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                                Ovrlord

                                                If you read that entire paragraph, you would have seen I didn't base my post off of what I said there. I was just saying what other people thought was killing the franchise, not my own view. I didn't say I thought the same way that they did. I did say some of them were, but I wasn't specific on which ones were really doing the job (at least for me in my opinion anyway). That's why I said, and I quote, "A lot of people that I've talked with." You just only assumed that I said camping is killing this franchise when I never said such a thing.

                                                  • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                                    rankismet

                                                    Ovrlord wrote:

                                                     

                                                    If you read that entire paragraph, you would have seen I didn't base my post off of what I said there. I was just saying what other people thought was killing the franchise, not my own view. I didn't say I thought the same way that they did. I did say some of them were, but I wasn't specific on which ones were really doing the job (at least for me in my opinion anyway). That's why I said, and I quote, "A lot of people that I've talked with." You just only assumed that I said camping is killing this franchise when I never said such a thing.

                                                     

                                                    I didn't stop reading... I stopped caring.

                                                     

                                                    I should really have said I stopped caring with "malicious" in the subject. There have been a number of decisions... both design and business... which are head scratching but far from malicious. I tire of hyperbole.


                                                    "A lot of people I talk with" is an awful lot like "I'm just asking about it... ya know... for a friend". You said it's not your POV... okay... to me it's disguising your's through others' words.

                                                • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                                  rlbl

                                                  I read the post (although, like rankismet, I almost stopped because of the camper comment) and I agree with the principal.

                                                   

                                                  people are starting to get bogged down in the points you made on the specific issues, while not seeing the fundamental spirit of the post (which I have interpreted as such... which is clear in the title):

                                                   

                                                  "The potentially malicious* business practices of the (parent) company is off-putting to the community, and may have a negative impact on the franchise in some people's eyes"

                                                   

                                                  * malicious is a matter of opinion. But as demonstrated by the posts and concerns of many people, the business practice of micro-DLC and how it (or what) is being delivered is not sitting well with many.

                                                   

                                                  Again, as I shared above: I also do not completely agree with the examples you give. I do however agree 100% with your post in principal (assuming I caught the spirit as intended)

                                                    • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                                      Ovrlord

                                                      I don't mean to give you the impression that I believe camping is killing this franchise. I never said that. That is why I said those points after I stated where that information came from instead of outright telling you I felt that way. You can see in that paragraph that I did not say I felt the same way about that issue.

                                                       

                                                      Other people can have different opinions on what they believe to be questionable by what they're doing. Those were the things I have observed and have a problem with. You are free to disagree if you want to. Like I've read from the two links you provided, you have your own issues with the franchise as well. If you have your own examples, that's completely fine. No argument there.

                                                        • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making
                                                          rlbl

                                                          agreed. Again, the point in principal is what matter; we do not have to agree on the points... 

                                                           

                                                          We do however, agree in principal that there have been potential misrepresentation and questionable business practices (n fact, I know for a fact that even those who have posted above agree with that point alone)

                                                           

                                                          (I saw after reading it that you do not believe that camping is killing the series, and that you were illustrating that others do and it is not the real point of what could be killing the franchise... I understand after I read and thought about what you trying to get at)

                                                      • Re: The standard of COD for the future: Malicious business practices and poor decision making

                                                        Read your post and I only agree with the dedicated servers and the thing you said about making customers pay for something that was in the previous game. Dedicated servers in Call of Duty should smooth out the latency but it will not fix the broken camera angles and out of sync issues. You forgot to mention them saying that they made a new engine when it still has every single problem that the old engine had only amplified. This engine is outdated to be honest it needs an over haul. If they continue down the micro transaction path that forces players to pay for things that were in the previous games I predict that players will have to pay nine out of 10 loadouts next game. They will kill their own series if they don't stop all of these negative community interactions.