1 2 3 Previous Next 73 Replies Latest reply: Jul 3, 2014 3:23 PM by nrclgaming RSS

    Game Mode Request: Lobbies with NO LAG COMPENSATION

    TinyLittleTimmy

      Reading over these posts for the last few months I see that most complaints are composed of phrases like:

      "they are shooting around corners,"

      "lost gun battle to SMG using my rifle/assault,"

      "invisible players kill me,"

      "instant death no bullets no red,"

      "need more health dying too fast,"

      "overpowered gun needs to be nerfed,"

      "overpowered explosive needs to be nerfed,"

      "lag in game - how do I fix my network,"

      "lag in game after the patch,"

      "super speed enemies,"

      "jerky movement,"

      "lagged host,"

      "kill cam location doesn't match what happened,"

      "I shot first but the kill cam didn't show it,"

      "I pre-fired but still lost gun fight,"

      "shot him dead-on but got no hit markers,"

      "0.3 K/D one game 5 to 10 K/D the next, same lobby,"

      "when are we getting dedicated servers,"

      etc...

      All of these issues appear to be lag related questions that up until this point remain completely un-addressed in any of the patches. So here is a revolutionary idea that I suggest will change the COD gaming arena FOREVER and save the series from it's demise.

       

      ADD LOBBIES THAT HAVE NO LAG COMPENSATION

       

      This is perfect for those of us who fork out thousands of dollars to get the ultimate gaming rig setup. It's time that a gaming mode is created for actual hardcore gamers. 50MB connections with less than 15ms lag are quickly becoming common place among gamers. Many of us spend the big bucks on extreme gaming modems, routers, gold connectors, quad-shielded, cat6/7, 120hz+ screens, high-speed HDMI, controllers, true 7.1 surround headphones, etc. only to have all this hardware offset entirely by ridiculously gracious sums of lag compensation handicaps to the enemy players so that we still get dropped into lobbies with people sharing out their cell-phone WiFi while streaming videos or downloading torrents. This is completely unacceptable. For example, I flew down to Mexico, put my SIM card in a MiFi, shared the 2 bar 3G connection with my PS3 and 4 tablets yet still got an OPEN NAT?!!!

       

      Lobbies with no lag compensation would be exclusively for players that like to play tournament style matches from the comfort of their homes. It would increase software and hardware sales because then those of us with money to spend would have reason to do so. Currently lag comp discourages big money players from purchasing high dollar games and hardware by slapping them with a huge handicap in the game.

       

      Back when PVP FPS first arrived I remember saving up my cash for months just so I could spend to buy that faster modem, larger ram, faster hard drive, cool controller, or better monitor, but now that lag comp undoes all of those purchases there is no point in trying to play competitively nor making more big purchases. Every good match and every bad match depends exclusively on how much lag comp you got or did not get, depending on how well the lobby matched up. Is this why I only get really good matches while my roommates are browsing for porn or streaming pirated movies? Yes! Which is common knowledge now days, and is very very sad that every kid gamer knows it.

       

      It is time for CHANGE. There would be no huge difference in the game code to add a NO LAG COMP lobby for us to try. Just comment out the lag comp code and stand up the lobby. If it fills with players then the entire gaming franchise would be changed forever. [The heavy duty & hardcore lobbies do not address the issue properly, respectively more life & faster death does not translate any way into less lag complaints, more than not it compounds the issue many times over, especially since closely matched players are rare in such small lobbies.] It's time to address the problem where it lies rather than continue wasting developer and programmer hours beating around the bush. Rather than thinking outside the box, stay in it, and address lag directly with no lag handicaps at all for players with terrible hardware and software setups. If they don't like playing without lag compensation then they can always go back to the standard default game modes.

       

      THANK YOU!

        • 1. Re: Game Mode Request: Lobbies with NO LAG COMPENSATION
          rankismet

          TinyLittleTimmy wrote:

           

          Reading over these posts for the last few months I see that most complaints are composed of phrases like:

          "they are shooting around corners,"

          "lost gun battle to SMG using my rifle/assault,"

          "invisible players kill me,"

          "instant death no bullets no red,"

          "need more health dying too fast,"

          "overpowered gun needs to be nerfed,"

          "overpowered explosive needs to be nerfed,"

          "lag in game - how do I fix my network,"

          "lag in game after the patch,"

          "super speed enemies,"

          "jerky movement,"

          "lagged host,"

          "kill cam location doesn't match what happened,"

          "I shot first but the kill cam didn't show it,"

          "I pre-fired but still lost gun fight,"

          "shot him dead-on but got no hit markers,"

          "0.3 K/D one game 5 to 10 K/D the next, same lobby,"

          "when are we getting dedicated servers,"

          etc...

          All of these issues appear to be lag related questions that up until this point remain completely un-addressed in any of the patches. So here is a revolutionary idea that I suggest will change the COD gaming arena FOREVER and save the series from it's demise.

           

          ADD LOBBIES THAT HAVE NO LAG COMPENSATION

           

          This is perfect for those of us who fork out thousands of dollars to get the ultimate gaming rig setup. It's time that a gaming mode is created for actual hardcore gamers. 50MB connections with less than 15ms lag are quickly becoming common place among gamers. Many of us spend the big bucks on extreme gaming modems, routers, gold connectors, quad-shielded, cat6/7, 120hz+ screens, high-speed HDMI, controllers, true 7.1 surround headphones, etc. only to have all this hardware offset entirely by ridiculously gracious sums of lag compensation handicaps to the enemy players so that we still get dropped into lobbies with people sharing out their cell-phone WiFi while streaming videos or downloading torrents. This is completely unacceptable. For example, I flew down to Mexico, put my SIM card in a MiFi, shared the 2 bar 3G connection with my PS3 and 4 tablets yet still got an OPEN NAT?!!!

           

          Lobbies with no lag compensation would be exclusively for players that like to play tournament style matches from the comfort of their homes. It would increase software and hardware sales because then those of us with money to spend would have reason to do so. Currently lag comp discourages big money players from purchasing high dollar games and hardware by slapping them with a huge handicap in the game.

           

          Back when PVP FPS first arrived I remember saving up my cash for months just so I could spend to buy that faster modem, larger ram, faster hard drive, cool controller, or better monitor, but now that lag comp undoes all of those purchases there is no point in trying to play competitively nor making more big purchases. Every good match and every bad match depends exclusively on how much lag comp you got or did not get, depending on how well the lobby matched up. Is this why I only get really good matches while my roommates are browsing for porn or streaming pirated movies? Yes! Which is common knowledge now days, and is very very sad that every kid gamer knows it.

           

          It is time for CHANGE. There would be no huge difference in the game code to add a NO LAG COMP lobby for us to try. Just comment out the lag comp code and stand up the lobby. If it fills with players then the entire gaming franchise would be changed forever. [The heavy duty & hardcore lobbies do not address the issue properly, respectively more life & faster death does not translate any way into less lag complaints, more than not it compounds the issue many times over, especially since closely matched players are rare in such small lobbies.] It's time to address the problem where it lies rather than continue wasting developer and programmer hours beating around the bush. Rather than thinking outside the box, stay in it, and address lag directly with no lag handicaps at all for players with terrible hardware and software setups. If they don't like playing without lag compensation then they can always go back to the standard default game modes.

           

          THANK YOU!

           

          Honestly... you do get how both game design and the internet work, right?

           

          What you are asking for... is not feasible.

          • 2. Re: Game Mode Request: Lobbies with NO LAG COMPENSATION
            sennalike

            Oh boy, I have no idea where to start, so I will just. let someone with more time on their hands explain.

            • 3. Re: Game Mode Request: Lobbies with NO LAG COMPENSATION
              nicedrewishfela

              Step 1, gain some knowledge on the Subject.

               

              Step 2, come back, read this, and laugh at how silly it is.

               

              Start here. Outdated but helpful. The Elagaphant – Charlie INTEL Blog: Call of Duty Ghosts - Black Ops 2 - Modern Warfare 3

              • 4. Re: Game Mode Request: Lobbies with NO LAG COMPENSATION
                toby_jugs

                some of the fault must lie with cheating internet service providers who use false claims of perfect gaming service to sell their product.

                • 5. Re: Game Mode Request: Lobbies with NO LAG COMPENSATION
                  gotsomestars

                  You have ZERO idea what you're talking about.

                  • 6. Re: Game Mode Request: Lobbies with NO LAG COMPENSATION
                    nicedrewishfela

                    As someone who works in that industry, I can assure you that has a LOT to do with it.


                    They offer high speeds over outdated equipment and push far too much through. Having worked in repair on these, sometimes you are better off with slower speeds which can cause less noise on the line. Less errors and loss = greater performance.

                    • 7. Re: Game Mode Request: Lobbies with NO LAG COMPENSATION
                      gambit1969

                      At least the grammer and spelling is pretty good.....

                      • 8. Re: Game Mode Request: Lobbies with NO LAG COMPENSATION
                        TinyLittleTimmy

                        There is no need for lag comp in lobbies where all players have less than 15ms ping to the host. It makes no sense to place me in a lobby at 200ms+ ping to Google's DNS (while playing in SOUTHERN Mexico over my horrible 3G signal) along side people with 17ms pings in New York, California, etc. When I talked over my mic that's exactly what happened. How did I do? Average. Did they call me a hacker and report me for absolutely no reason when I got a KEM. Obviously. Did I time out of a lot games when I got host. Yes. This is totally ridiculous and unacceptable for the players I killed in those matches, so I will let someone with more time explain that to you.

                         

                        A little bit of lag comp, below 50ms is ok maybe, but for some of us, even that is too much. That's a 2 bullet lead for most SMG's with rapid fire. It is literally the difference between life and death, the flinch alone will kill you cause by then it is too late to return fire. Obviously tournaments do not have lag comp. They are played locally, typically with network delays of less than 3ms and I would assume the displays are about 3ms delay as well. Merely introducing 100ms lag comp to a single good player in a local tournament would provide a huge advantage. This is obvious to good experienced players, those of us who have been gaming 15-20 years now. Any delays above 30ms feel sluggish to me making many games feel unplayable. TV's specifically come with a 'Gaming Mode' because for most gamers 30-200ms is way too outrageous to play any game anymore so they have to add that 'Gaming Mode' to pull off all that extra processing and get delay back down to a reasonable 3ms. If 50ms is dead, then 200ms is dead 4 times over. TV's alone have already established this much delay is not acceptable by any means for video games.

                         

                        If we can ping the host consistently at less than 50ms round trip then a "No Lag Comp" lobby is certainly feasible. It would likely only consist of only players from your local city, or same ISP, and brings a whole new element of excitement to the game knowing you are the best around your town. But throwing me in lobby with England, Cuba, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Canada, East, West, North, South USA just makes the lobby lag comp ridiculous in every game and becomes very obvious as the host flips around between matches in the same lobby. Depending on where you live you are typically either finding lots of these short hop players from around town quickly, or depending on your ISP you may not ever find a local player.

                         

                        Lobbies should be based on ping, not hops. This is already an outstanding complaint about matchmaking. It is not new nor unfounded. Adding a game mode with little or no lag comp and giving us a choice to play in those low ping lobbies or avoid them entirely is the same as choosing to play a sport like bowling without a handicap. It is fair and reasonable if we can choose to play with or without that handicap. To disagree simply means you refuse to play others unless you get to have your handicap. Professional players do not need help from lag code. If this was an acceptable way to play then there would be no reason to host tournaments on a local network at a predisposed location. We could all just sit at home to play the tournament then send the 100K check out to the top ranked player for them to collect. This logic of playing with delay compensation is clearly unfair, thus you must travel to attend tournaments and play on a dedicated local network that has been optimized to reduce lag. To disagree an say lag comp does not affect the game is the same as dismissing the reason for local tournament games altogether, and is similar to saying lag comp is useless. If it didn't change the way the game plays then it would not be needed at all. Obviously it makes a huge difference, thus all games use it now-a-days, to say it's removal would not give those of us with super fast connections a huge advantage is fruitless. So you see, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

                         

                        If there are round trip delays of less than 50ms to a host then no lag comp should be required (and it typically won't be given currently due to how lag comp works anyway). Network traffic can cause small spikes or drops in delays, so there is no need for a constant 50-200ms advantage for any single player in these lobbies. It is clearly overkill. There should be a game mode where players that have this much delay are not allowed into the game. That's all I'm saying. This much lag is clearly more than the limit that should be allowed in any competitive video game tournament today. Disagree all you want, but clearly it is the truth, as it is widely accepted by today's modern gaming society. As programmer we should be trying to reduce game delays such as those due to Frames Per Second slow downs rather than smooth them over with lag comp code, but as of late we've lost sight of reducing delay and speeding things up, or upgrading hardware, in favor of introducing more lag comp tweaks. This is not addressing the problem. Just a quick fix. I believe it's past time now to decide exactly "how much is too much" compensation. 50ms+ is just too much delay in a fast paced shooter as nearly all truly skilled gamers will surely agree.

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