41 Replies Latest reply: Jun 19, 2014 1:27 AM by nuttin2say RSS

    Lose the K/D

    Camaro68

      I just finished a game of HC KC and we lost.

      But we had the camper on the team bragging about how well he did.

      He was 42 and 12. Not bad for TD, except he managed to gather only two tags.

      Those were probably his tags he gathered as he ran back to his camping spot.

      His K/D was 4.something and he was proud of it and he did nothing to help the team win the game and in fact we lost.

      But he was proud of that all precious K/D and talked crap to everyone that was lower than him.

      No one cares about K/D.

      I've noticed that people with high K/D's don't play a lot of TD. They play the games with the easy targets.

      The only way to fix this problem on an otherwise pretty good game is to do away with displaying the K/D to the world, or only make it count on non-objective games (TD, FFA, etc.).

      Just my opinion.

        • Re: Lose the K/D
          DocChoi

          This is already something that has been proposed by many posters on this forum including myself. What you described is pretty annoying as it's hardcore without killcams. Bet you pretty decent money that this guy can't do as well in core TDM.

           

          The problem with showing any public stats is it makes it impossible for good players to find a decent lobby. Or you end up in a lobby full of classy folks (I'm being very sarcastic here) who will say anything to rile you up and proceed to either rage quit or report you after their beatdown. So far in the past week, I have ran into red clan tag guys who called me out for "ruining the fun for everyone", high prestige guys complaining I'm hoarding all the kills (didn't know I have to share - my bad), some fifth prestige guy calling me out saying I have nothing better to do than play CoD (didn't know 10 days game time is excessive for a 7 month old game) and the best... "f*ck this guy" and backs out.

           

          Whether this would stop people from camping in an attempt to preserve k/d is debatable. But at least it will solve some of the problems with publicly viewable stats as presented above. Now if they brought back mercenary modes...

            • Re: Lose the K/D
              Camaro68

              I hear what you're saying.

              I ran into a guy earlier today that was complaining that our team was running around too much. According to him, we need to sit and wait for them to come to us! He was actually yelling at all of us to find a corner and wait.

              We were playing KC, and his K/D was in the threes.

              Camping has become the norm it appears.

              My K/D sucks (0.86) but I always manage to come in first or second for the game.

              I used to like Cranked, but the camping in that has gotten crazy, too!

              I know camping will always exist but if someone is camping to protect their K/D then that's the person to avoid. They aren't going to help the team.

                • Re: Lose the K/D
                  DocChoi

                  The trouble with k/d is it's not an accurate representation of how good a player actually is. The only way you can correlate k/d with actual skill in this game is pair it up with score per game. You will find there are quite a few 2+ players; but very few players who average 2000+ points per game. IMO, this is the only way to validate whether a player is involved in a game and is probably the best way to gauge your competition as k/d isn't as important in objective modes.

                   

                  When in a pre-game lobby, go into barracks and go to leaderboards. You can filter the stats for the lobby in you are in. Very often you will see high k/d players average less than 1200 pts per game. Not so intimidating anymore, are they? The only players I would dread going against are those who average 2000+ with a good k/d and w/l spread.

                    • Re: Lose the K/D
                      Camaro68

                      I agree.

                      Even the leader board is misleading.

                      I often run into a guy that is terrible at KC, but he keeps playing (I give him credit for that).

                      He is something like #78 on the leader board only because he plays so much, but you don't want him on your team.

                    • Re: Lose the K/D
                      PUR4IDO

                      DocChoi wrote:

                       

                      The trouble with k/d is it's not an accurate representation of how good a player actually is. The only way you can correlate k/d with actual skill in this game is pair it up with score per game. You will find there are quite a few 2+ players; but very few players who average 2000+ points per game. IMO, this is the only way to validate whether a player is involved in a game and is probably the best way to gauge your competition as k/d isn't as important in objective modes.

                       

                      When in a pre-game lobby, go into barracks and go to leaderboards. You can filter the stats for the lobby in you are in. Very often you will see high k/d players average less than 1200 pts per game. Not so intimidating anymore, are they? The only players I would dread going against are those who average 2000+ with a good k/d and w/l spread.

                       

                      Funny that ppl that complain about KD, are the ppl with low K/D's. Sometimes you have to put your backpack on play above & beyond. If you have a guy a camping & not collecting tags, pick them up for him. That's why I do, especially now that you get rewarded for picking them up.

                      Camaro68 wrote:

                       

                      I hear what you're saying.

                      I ran into a guy earlier today that was complaining that our team was running around too much. According to him, we need to sit and wait for them to come to us! He was actually yelling at all of us to find a corner and wait.

                      We were playing KC, and his K/D was in the threes.

                      Camping has become the norm it appears.

                      My K/D sucks (0.86) but I always manage to come in first or second for the game.

                      I used to like Cranked, but the camping in that has gotten crazy, too!

                      I know camping will always exist but if someone is camping to protect their K/D then that's the person to avoid. They aren't going to help the team.

                      He's right, rushing around like a fool doesn't help the team, especially when the other team is camping waiting for easy kills. I don't camp, but in Ghosts I play more defensive, because you die to fast. Sometimes is wise to slow it down & wait to see if the opponent makes a move. I doubt you're coming 1st or 2nd in lobby, unless you are playing lesser players.

                        • Re: Lose the K/D
                          Camaro68

                          Rushing around doesn't help the team?

                          You doubt if I usually come in first or second?

                          Too bad you're wrong on both counts.

                            • Re: Lose the K/D
                              PUR4IDO

                              Camaro68 wrote:

                               

                              Rushing around doesn't help the team?

                              You doubt if I usually come in first or second?

                              Too bad you're wrong on both counts.

                              According to you, your K/D 0.83.. Meaning that the majority of the time, you end up with more deaths, than kills. In KC, you drop more tags, for the other team to collect. See where I'm going here. So if you come in 2nd or 3rd, you are doing it against lesser players. As you rush around dying, you are feeding the stats of the players you are complaining about.

                                • Re: Lose the K/D
                                  KTPhoenix

                                  PUR4IDO wrote:

                                   

                                  Camaro68 wrote:

                                   

                                  Rushing around doesn't help the team?

                                  You doubt if I usually come in first or second?

                                  Too bad you're wrong on both counts.

                                  According to you, your K/D 0.83.. Meaning that the majority of the time, you end up with more deaths, than kills. In KC, you drop more tags, for the other team to collect. See where I'm going here. So if you come in 2nd or 3rd, you are doing it against lesser players. As you rush around dying, you are feeding the stats of the players you are complaining about.

                                  Ever think that he runs around collecting tags OTHER than the ones he gets for getting kills? It IS possible to have that kind of k/d while also collecting tags that no one bothers to pick up.

                                  • Re: Lose the K/D
                                    Camaro68

                                    At the end of the game, I have more tags than deaths.

                                    And I don't actually run around like my hair is on fire as you assumed I did.

                                    My K/D was actually 1.1 for a while, but I started playing domination, blitz and drop zone quite a bit and that destroyed my K/D.

                                    I can't camp so I play the objective.

                                    Your assumptions make you look foolish.

                                    • Re: Lose the K/D
                                      JetEye

                                      In Kill Confirmed the only thing that matters is your tag to death ratio. 

                                  • Re: Lose the K/D
                                    DocChoi

                                    Huh? I was making a point where there are lots of ways to evaluate a player. I have played with many "good" players and some are clearly better than others. I have played with garbage 3 k/d 12 year olds who dashboard 90% of their matches and also refuse to leave their spot if we're behind and end up losing due to their desire to preserve k/d. I also have met and still play with amazing 3 k/d players that can wreck lobbies consistently.

                                     

                                    As a decent k/d guy, I feel there are different levels of how good a player is and shouldn't be judged solely on a stat that can be easily manipulated. Aggressive high scoring players that don't die are always more useful than passive low scoring players that don't die.

                              • Re: Lose the K/D
                                Camaro68

                                Wow - Another one. This guy was 31 and 3. Their team lost, but he was bragging about how good he was!

                                Eight tags - that's all he managed to get.

                                He own team was yelling at him, but he insisted he was the best.

                                "Look at my f'ing K/D you m'f'ers," he said.

                                Amazing!

                                • Re: Lose the K/D
                                  WhyNoName

                                  With people's attitude in the game, my favorite "perk" is the mute all but party option.  People can yap all they want, yet I will never hear a word they say.

                                   

                                  I do wish they would make most stats private - it would help solve a lot of people's issues in the game.  Only allow stats to be seen to your friends list would be nice.

                                  • Re: Lose the K/D
                                    KTPhoenix

                                    My opinion is this, get rid of ALL the stats.....period. There is absolutely no need for them at all. What people should be focusing on is the task at hand in whichever match they are in at the time. They shouldnt be focused on some worthless stats that no one in real life gives a sh*t about.

                                     

                                    Stats shouldnt even be private to where the player can only view their own. Just get rid of them all so we dont have anymore

                                    e-peen measuring.


                                    This is not a hard concept to grasp. But the little kids and adults acting like children dont want to give it up because somehow they get a sense of self worth out of some stat that no one else cares about.

                                    • Re: Lose the K/D
                                      LVLikeG

                                      I agree that stats should stay in the game, but you should only be able to see your own.  There are some people who do care about them and those people shouldn't have that taken away.  Making them private would be enough of a reason for more players to try to win and would help prevent lobby shopping.

                                      • Re: Lose the K/D
                                        FeedMCMilitia

                                        Me personally I don't care about KD. To me it's just numbers if you play Blitz then you could win and go 3 and 40 but have 10 captures same thing in Domination. So depending on the game mode KD doesn't matter. I agree with LVLikeG you should be the only one who can see your stats.

                                        • Re: Lose the K/D
                                          nuttin2say

                                          eSports brings a critical dichotomy to COD. As long as eSports exists, you must have stats available somewhere for players to look at in team / clan creation.

                                           

                                          But that's just one aspect of stats. I've seen a lot of players compare COD to BF in regards to stats. The argument goes that BF has become funner because there's not so much of an emphasis on stats. Perhaps that is true in the BF forums, but the reality is that there are more stats available to BF users than COD ever had. Not only is there the main site, there is at least one 3rd party alternate site. It is extremely easy to compare players.

                                           

                                          The much larger, I would say complete set of data to look at for every player is more likely the reason stats in BF "are not that important." Able to paint a complete picture of each player, there's no arguing who is actually better. You have a 3.0 wlr, eh? Yeah, you also have a 43% quite ratio.

                                           

                                          And, as always, this conversation focuses upon K/D. That's the problem. It is the only easily observable stat. What should be done is that MORE stats should be available ... but make them available outside the game itself.

                                          • Re: Lose the K/D
                                            PUR4IDO

                                            When I 1st started playing COD, I really didn't give a crap about K/D.  The more I played & the better I got ( i Still suck ) my K/D improved and I got more kills, which led to more streaks, which led to more kills. I assure you that if you alter your game just a tad, your kills will go up and so will your K/D.

                                            • Re: Lose the K/D
                                              iamyourfather

                                              I completely agree that you have to play the objective if the team is struggling and needs some help, but it is hard to get 30 kills and 30 tags. Half the time teammates will get your tag before you can or the enemy team will have more than one person their and you cant get them both. Also sometimes u need the slayers to help the team win. Like in domination, teams need people hold down B until they can get the reinforcements, so in KC if people are going to run crazy going for tags then shouldnt he give those people more tags to get. Dont get me wrong he should still go for the confirms if noone else is nearby.

                                              • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                chrissyx30

                                                Why lose kd when it is the only individual stat to go by, good kd = good player and gives away less scorestreaks, these forums bemuse me at times

                                                  • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                    LVLikeG

                                                    Good kd=good player?  Maybe you're only going off of tdm.  There is nothing good about a player who sits back in a game of domination and goes 12-3 with no caps or defends, while another player goes 40-20 with 10 caps and 10 defends. 

                                                    • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                      KTPhoenix

                                                      chrissyx30 wrote:

                                                       

                                                      Why lose kd when it is the only individual stat to go by, good kd = good player and gives away less scorestreaks, these forums bemuse me at times

                                                      That is not completely true. I have seen players with k/ds that are 2.5+ and all they do is camp their asses off and dashboard whenever they get their asses handed to them in a match. Most of the time when you see a high k/d, that means the player artificially inflated their stats by going into an objective match like DOM and just sat there on a flag farming kills.

                                                       

                                                      This happens with every COD. But it was worse in MW2 because of the killstreaks and how easy it was to manipulate the system. All you really had to do was get a harrier, place it correctly and you just had to sit back and watch the kills get racked up.

                                                       

                                                      There are very few people that can pull off a high k/d like that while also playing the objective. Those people deserve a lot of credit but unfortunately with the artificial inflation of stats, we dont know who they are unless we look at the global leaderboards K/D and SPM.

                                                    • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                      nicedrewishfela

                                                      Can't lose K/D, it is a stat integral to the game.

                                                       

                                                      What CAN and SHOULD change, however is how K/D is recorded in Objective Modes to keep idiots like the one you described from manipulating their stats by ignoring objectives.

                                                       

                                                      I have long said that in KC, you should NOT get the kill unless your kill is Confirmed. Thus.. the title of the game mode.. KILL CONFIRMED. You should only get a Kill credited to your stats if the enemy tag is picked up, This would keep people from simply kill mongering the entire match.

                                                       

                                                      Sadly, too many people cling to the fact they can abuse the system to want this change.

                                                      • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                        Lucent76

                                                        Without KD there would be no consequence in getting killed so everyone would simply play rushing headless chicken.

                                                        As someone who spends most of their play time in Free for All I consider KD the most important stat of all. I can see how it can cause trouble in objective based games.

                                                        • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                          bdnlv702

                                                          I don't know, I just play how the game comes to me and hope everyone does their job to help.  Meaning there are times in KC that I will go 25-30 kills 20-30 tags, either I'm getting my tags or getting others.  Then there are times that the kills are just coming to me quick and easy without much moving(yes, I guess "monitoring an area" getting 30-40 kills, but I'm not scooping up the tags for whatever reason...maybe I'll get 10-15 of them.  I figure at times I'm getting the team a crap load of kills, well they can get the tags.  And that sometimes happens, and sometimes doesn't.  I've noticed far to many times people running by tags without getting them, even their own..makes no sense.  I'll always pick up tags, to confirm or deny.

                                                          As far as KD, I feel mine is pretty respectable(1.78) being I play solo alot and that I don't ever play to protect it in any game type.  I always play the objective, but sometimes you have to be the guy getting the kills, holding down a position, getting the kills in KC for others to pick up tags, etc.  I guess thats how at times I'll justify myself getting alot of kills in certain games w/out "looking" like I was playing the objective, or visa versa.  KD is a relatable stat, it'll always be in the game.

                                                          • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                            Medrano911

                                                            I am on the side of losing the kd, my cod days started out and Black Ops so I grew with loving the way that system works, perks were great where you had to unlock the full potential of them, I encountered lots of great skilled players there too. Most of all you didn't see kd by just scrolling through the lobby names, that made it a whole lot funner to guess who would be good. Also for me the best is stuff like 25-50, just put on knives and speed perks and collect all the tags.

                                                            • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                              Robwolves

                                                              If they get rid or hide K/D stats chrissyx30 and xoMrSLAVEox will cry

                                                              • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                                Adeeez100

                                                                Agree, 100%, if it was allowed i would agree more than that.

                                                                • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                                  idyb

                                                                  A 4 k/d player who statwhores objective is going to get destroyed when they play me in TDM. I do it on a daily basis (to those few that don't back out scared anyway). I like the k/d stat, but making it only count for deathmatch modes would be an okay compromise

                                                                  • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                                    Firesens

                                                                    IMO camping it out and capping off enemy players for your teammates to pick up isn't a bad strategy, it shows that he doesn't pick up tags, but that doesn't mean he wasn't helping out the team. Anyone of your teammates could have picked up those tags to score points for the win. Don't just blame him for your loss.

                                                                      • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                                        JetEye

                                                                        Firesens wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        IMO camping it out and capping off enemy players for your teammates to pick up isn't a bad strategy, it shows that he doesn't pick up tags, but that doesn't mean he wasn't helping out the team. Anyone of your teammates could have picked up those tags to score points for the win. Don't just blame him for your loss.

                                                                        That's fine and dandy IF that has been predetermined.  However, too many people unfairly place themselves in position of slayer, and FORCE their teammates to do the dirty work (pick up tags).

                                                                      • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                                        Shadowelite555

                                                                        I say get rid of K/D completely from yourself, and others. This way it will not affect anyone at all. If there is no K/D stat whatsoever, then it wouldnt matter if a person dies in a match.

                                                                          • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                                            nicedrewishfela

                                                                            But if it doesn't matter if you die... then why try at all?

                                                                              • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                                                Shadowelite555

                                                                                Well, what I meant to say without ramblin on is that if people dont know their own K/D, maybe the will be less likely to camp for it. Im not talking about the hardcore campers, but the average joes that get on and see themselves going negative, so they switch to a more reserved style of play. Just a theory.

                                                                                  • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                                                    nicedrewishfela

                                                                                    I am not sure removing it would change how people play. Maybe in theory it would, but I think folks would still play how they wanted to play.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Removing the stats would hurt those of us who use them for legit reasons. Like I stated earlier, I'd rather see them adjust how stats are recorded in game modes to make them more legit, and remove it from Party or Niche gametypes like Dropzone or Gun Game to keep those games fun and casual.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    The analogy I made earlier in this thread was to Online Poker, not sure if you've ever played. Play at a Free to Play Table, and people play like idiots as there is nothing to lose. Play at even a Penny Ante table and people play a lot more seriously, and ultimately it is more fun, rather than having folks go all in every hand before the flop with 4/7 off suit.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Sure some folks abuse it, but it has it's place in the game.

                                                                                      • Re: Lose the K/D
                                                                                        nuttin2say

                                                                                        I may be coming to the table a little late in this discussion, but drews last several posts I would definitely have to agree with.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        You guys making a big deal out of kdr being visible are as short-sighted and as much of an issue as the 42-12 player described in the OP's opening post. I'm not understanding why communication is necessary to figure out what exactly another player is doing during a match. Which suddenly sets up an unwanted transition into another, tangential problem that really cannot be separated from the OP's rant.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        All of you guys that cry the blues about players not collecting tags tend to be the same guys crying the blues about people stealing your tags. When KC was introduced in MW3, it was specifically introduced as a team-focused game mode. It was specifically intended to allow for either "selfish" game play or "team" play. If you are a selfish player who does not collect tags, then that will reflect in your overall score. Or, you can be the "selfish" player who does the slaying in conjunction with a teammate who collects the tags.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        For me, KC is very simple. If I see a tag, I'm collecting it. I really do not care whether you scored the tag's kill or not. I remember one night accepting a party invite and having a discussion about this issue before we went into the pubs. When someone decided to ask my opinion on the matter finally, I told them this was one of the most idiotic debates I had ever seen in COD. It's real simple, I see a tag, I collect a tag - so long as I can do so without getting killed in the process.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        And if you see tag's I killed, you damn well better do the same.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        More recently, I had a lobby freak out. I joined the lobby late, scored 17 kills and 4 deaths ... but collected 19 tags. The opposing team was livid. They had an easy win underway and I stole it from them. How? Because I had a 4.25 kdr that match AND I was obviously collecting tags that did not belong to me. They backed out.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        My point is that I was glad someone on my team was scoring a kill and if it kept them alive for me to do the dirty work of collecting tags, that's perfectly fine with me. Hopefully they will return the favor sometime.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        I agree with all of you that the 42-12 guy described in the OP is obviously abusing the system. Having MORE stats would reveal that reality and you could VERY EASILY mute such a player if you knew the rest of his story as only stats could reveal. I've been reading the BF3 forums as of late, as well. I love the guys that come in bragging about the one stat where they excel. I love it because BF provides an enormous collection of data.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        The guys over there that tend to brag about 3.0 wlr are also the guys that tend to have 40% + forfeit ratios. The guys with 2.0+ kdr's tend to not only have high quit ratios, they ALWAYS have stats that overwhelmingly point to rigged lobbies (which is why rented servers is a bad idea ... can we say "boosters" anyone?)

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Besides everything I've said so far, I'm going to add something else. You guys complaining about kdr are looking at the result, not the actual problem. Nor are you even looking at the symptoms. Let's see how easy it is to run up a 40+ kill count in KC (HC or Core) without streak rewards scoring 30 of those 42 kills. But, see, everyone NEEDS those streak rewards to get 12+ kills so you know let's not look at real solutions.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        That might make ourselves look bad.