26 Replies Latest reply: Jun 17, 2014 5:39 PM by scotland-rules RSS

    Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing

    ghamorra

      One of the drawbacks with closed BETAs is that you only get an incredibly small sampling of what players tendencies are. A major oversight over the last few years is the lack of attention Perks get when rebalancing the game after it's release. In Ghosts particularly we have a few oversights with perks and this could be for any number of reasons. Be it a perk that's needed because of an overuse of something like Incog costing 3 points and no less than half the players in a lobby using Thermal or Trackers, or be it a generally useless perk like Off-the-Grid which costs 3 points and is really not worth much of anything because of lack of SatCom use, or a perk is too useful and costs too little like Danger Close which costs 3 but should be treated like Deadeye and cost 5.

       

      Black Ops II had a few perks that were also pointless. The combining of perks, reduction in costs (if they stick to the point system), or the re-arranging of their location. The only perk I'm ever aware of being modified after release was Amplify. Perks are more important than most players realize. Everyone uses perks and some perks are staples among playstyles. Perks are also perks, they shouldn't feel needed which in some cases you feel as if you have to use it. Flak Jacket in Black Ops II, Incog in Ghosts, Assassin in MW3. These perks weren't used so much because a player liked using it, it was used so much because players can't play the game without it. Explosive spam in Black Ops II, everyone using Thermal and Tracker in Ghosts, and the non-stop spam of UAVs in MW3 thanks to the new Hardline.

       

      Perks should be balanced so you can still use the perks you want concurrently with the perks you need

        • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
          Izjar11

          they should have something that allows us to choose any perks, and when they are combined with certain loadouts, tacticals produce a smaller improvement in usage, aiming, timing, speed, etc.

           

          So adding perks together gives a desired effect in terms of overall character movement, speed, agility, resilience, etc.

          • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
            rankismet

            I get your point to a point. There are perks an attachments which will always be used more than others....

             

            ... but...

             

            ... too often, this community's first reaction is it's the games fault versus their inability to adapt the game at hand. Essentially... people have wanted every game to play like COD4 after COD4.

             

            Adapt to the map at hand.

            Adapt to what your enemy is doing.

             

            People focus on showing up whitehot on a sight versus why they allowed themselves to even be in the sight.

            • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
              nicedrewishfela

              I don't know if it is perk re-balancing or making sure the game is balanced so that you don't NEED to use certain perks.

               

              Perks should be just that.. a Perk. It shouldn't be practically mandatory to use, but something that enhances your abilities and your game.

               

              You make it so that attachments cost just like Perks, you balance things out.

                • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                  ghamorra

                  About 99% of perk balancing is just this. Being able to play a match without thinking to yourself, "How much of an impact would Incog have made?" If the answer to that is something along the lines of "a lot" then we need to take a look at the perk balancing. I understand what rankismet means by "adapt" and "too often, this community's first reaction is it's the games fault versus their inability to adapt the game at hand. "

                   

                  It's a tough job balancing the game out but I do not want another Ghosts/Black Ops II where every class I need Incog/Cold Blooded. I don't want a situation where I need a anit-radar perk because of all the spam. We need to get away from building our classes solely to counter parts of the game.

                    • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                      nicedrewishfela

                      I think that was a huge downfall in Ghosts.

                       

                      Ironically, I felt like there were no Overpowered classes in BO2. In fact, I could run around quite well without any perks or attachments at all, and Diamond Camo gave me a reason to do so.

                       

                      Sure, in Ghosts I could play without Incog or SitRep or other perks, but the difference is notable. rankismet has a good point, but you can't always stay out of the crosshairs when you glow through obstacles. To make the game playable and enjoyable it is better to run those perks, and while it might just be me, I feel like I have to run them. There is no penalty to Thermal Site users, whereas Incog users get punished 3 points. That..isn't..balance.

                       

                      Everything you equip should cost, Black Ops 2, I feel... got it the closest so far. Perk Tiers, Wildcards, attachments costing points, the ability to equip only a secondary(and earn camos for that secondary making it worthwhile). The only thing I would have liked to have seen added to the Create a Class system was Three points for Scorestreaks for each class, or the ability to use a wildcard to forgo streaks in favor of 2 additional slots.

                        • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                          ghamorra

                          I could do well without perks, and though I haven't tried it enough to give an honest answer, I have done well without perks in Ghosts. But as you said, it's a whole new world when you're exposed as much as you are. I've held back my comments on IEDs and have defended them from the perspective of someone who's used them and watched players walk away unharmed. That being said it doesn't mean that IEDs aren't everywhere. I don't run SitRep so I can't say just how much of a difference it makes, but I do know how many times I've come across an IED and it's a lot so I can easily see why players feel they have to use it.

                           

                          Perks should be bonus and mostly used out of preference.

                          • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                            PUR4IDO

                            nicedrewishfela wrote:

                             

                            I think that was a huge downfall in Ghosts.

                             

                            Ironically, I felt like there were no Overpowered classes in BO2. In fact, I could run around quite well without any perks or attachments at all, and Diamond Camo gave me a reason to do so.

                             

                            Sure, in Ghosts I could play without Incog or SitRep or other perks, but the difference is notable. rankismet has a good point, but you can't always stay out of the crosshairs when you glow through obstacles. To make the game playable and enjoyable it is better to run those perks, and while it might just be me, I feel like I have to run them. There is no penalty to Thermal Site users, whereas Incog users get punished 3 points. That..isn't..balance.

                             

                            Everything you equip should cost, Black Ops 2, I feel... got it the closest so far. Perk Tiers, Wildcards, attachments costing points, the ability to equip only a secondary(and earn camos for that secondary making it worthwhile). The only thing I would have liked to have seen added to the Create a Class system was Three points for Scorestreaks for each class, or the ability to use a wildcard to forgo streaks in favor of 2 additional slots.

                            That's because in blops 2, you could take bullets, not die take cover and out skill the person who was shooting at you. In Ghosts, once they start shooting at you/connecting, you're dead.

                      • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                        PUR4IDO

                        What's wrong w the old 3 perk system? Simple is better. I'm not the biggest fan of MW3, but I liked the fact that I couldn't use Focus & Kick at the same time, I had to give up something to gain something. Makes it fair for all.

                         

                        In Ghosts I see guys running Agility, Marathon, DS ( Still has room for more perks ), so now he's super fast, never stops sprinting, makes no noise & he's running around w a shotgun. He's moving so fast that the animation doesn't even match what the character is actually doing.

                         

                        Doesn't matter, I have a feeling the Exo suits might have different abilities.

                         

                        I've gotten used to the perks system in Ghosts and I will get used to the system in AW.

                          • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                            ghamorra

                            I think the game benefits from having players pick whatever perks they want but I too feel that they shouldn't be able to over do it. Only being able to choose one perk from out of three tiers is too limited. Especially in Black Ops II where Blind-Eye and Ghost was in the same tier as Flak Jacket. You're forcing players to pick their poison. Get smashed by countless Hunter Killers, Show up on easy to earn UAVs, or die from C4 chucking asshats. All three were relentlessly spammed in Ghosts and you could choose one defense.

                             

                            I think making all perks available to you without tiers is the way to go. I also like having more than just 3. It gives you more freedom. So long as the perks are broken up in a balanced way I see no problem with choosing 5 perks out of 15-20 available.

                              • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                                PUR4IDO

                                ghamorra wrote:

                                 

                                I think the game benefits from having players pick whatever perks they want but I too feel that they shouldn't be able to over do it. Only being able to choose one perk from out of three tiers is too limited. Especially in Black Ops II where Blind-Eye and Ghost was in the same tier as Flak Jacket. You're forcing players to pick their poison. Get smashed by countless Hunter Killers, Show up on easy to earn UAVs, or die from C4 chucking asshats. All three were relentlessly spammed in Ghosts and you could choose one defense.

                                 

                                I think making all perks available to you without tiers is the way to go. I also like having more than just 3. It gives you more freedom. So long as the perks are broken up in a balanced way I see no problem with choosing 5 perks out of 15-20 available.

                                That's why 3 perks works well, you can't be protected from everything. You shouldn't be able to have a perk that protects you from Bombs, Aerial support, radar,etc,  equipped at the same. If that's the case, remove all the crap from the game & make it like Battlefield.

                                 

                                Right now, it is unfair, that can I choose to run around using DS & Amplify together. I should be forced to pick between these two perks.

                                  • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                                    Izjar11

                                    Do you realize how backwards what you write sounds?

                                     

                                    I quote: "That's because in blops 2, you could take bullets, not die take cover and out skill the person who was shooting at you. In Ghosts, once they start shooting at you/connecting, you're dead."

                                     

                                    This is what many called bullet sponging and it was complained about, how you start shooting, getting many hitmarkers and then the person turning around. This is not a good thing from BO2, it was a dumb thing. Ghost you get shot = you die <------------ shooting "virtual" bullets should do this.

                                     

                                    "That's why 3 perks works well, you can't be protected from everything." <------ guy, the concentration of three perks into a one thing was why they were taken apart. Ghost gives you "variety" to choose and Ghost perk is the one that does not "protect you from everything".

                                     

                                    You really should re-visit what your processing as is.

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                      • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                                        ghamorra

                                        Izjar11 wrote:

                                         

                                        "That's why 3 perks works well, you can't be protected from everything." <------ guy, the concentration of three perks into a one thing was why they were taken apart. Ghost gives you "variety" to choose and Ghost perk is the one that does not "protect you from everything".

                                        This is what I like about Ghosts. None of the perks are OP (over protecting ), in fact I'd say some are too under protecting. That's what I'm getting at with this. If they continue to break perks up like this I would like to see them balanced and thought out. Combine a few perks that are used as counters so you're not dedicating your perk loadout to just countering plagues of the game and keep some of the playstyle perks broken up so you can mix and match how you want.

                                        • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                                          PUR4IDO

                                          One of the biggest complaint about ghosts is the fast ttk and how the 3arc ( or older IW games ) games give you more bullet dancing or sponging. Bullet sponging allows for more gun fights to take place and gives the person w the better gun skill a chance to come out on top of the gun fight.  ( CORE MODES )

                                           

                                          I even posted a video in the Ghosts forum on why 3arc  ( Vahn ) choose to have more bullet dancing in black ops 2.

                                           

                                          SHG already stated that their game will be fast paced and I'm hoping they take the same approach 3arc took when it comes to TTK.

                                           

                                          PS: It was complained about by ppl who could NOT hold their aim down in CORE MODES. Never heard a good player complain about the TTK in Blops 2.

                                            • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                                              ghamorra

                                              PUR4IDO wrote:

                                               

                                              One of the biggest complaint about ghosts is the fast ttk and how the 3arc ( or older IW games ) games give you more bullet dancing or sponging. Bullet sponging allows for more gun fights to take place and gives the person w the better gun skill a chance to come out on top of the gun fight.  ( CORE MODES )

                                               

                                              I even posted a video in the Ghosts forum on why 3arc  ( Vahn ) choose to have more bullet dancing in black ops 2.

                                               

                                              SHG already stated that their game will be fast paced and I'm hoping they take the same approach 3arc took when it comes to TTK.

                                              One of the biggest myths about Ghosts is that you die faster. YOU DO NOT DIE FASTER. You die in the same amount of bullets in Ghosts that you did in every other game. Look at the TTK for every gun in Ghosts and compare it to it's relative in another title. The TTK is the same. The only difference is that some weapons have slightly longer range than in the past but even still it's only by a few units.

                                               

                                              The reason TTK seemed longer was lag and as many complaine about during Black Ops II you would shoot some one for an entire clip and they would walk away. It's not because they absorbed all that damage, it was because lag didn't actually credit you for damage. If you were that person getting shot lag would have prevented you from knowing you were getting shot until you turned a corner and suddenly died without warning. TTK was irrelevant. All of that was lag.

                                               

                                              Ghosts doesn't have this issue. It runs smoothly for the most part and because it runs smoothly you die when you're suppose to die, not when you're around the corner or when the game decides to tell you without warning that you're dead.

                                              • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                                                Izjar11

                                                Lets have a refresher since we easily forget or ignore things from the past, plus I never, EVER saw you post how TTK was so good in BO2 forums.

                                                 

                                                Quote 1: " I´ve received my BO2 now - and I´m slightly dissapointed and shocked!

                                                Does anyone of you have the same feeling than me, that it takes three times the time to kill someone than in MW3?

                                                I´ve shot 6 rounds into someones back with the Five-Seven from a distance less than 3-6 Meters - and he was easily running away!"

                                                Source: Endless time until kill!?


                                                Quote 2: "Too bad TTK is irrelevant in a gunfight. Sure, it can determine how fast a gun can kill, but due to the randomness of most shootouts it tends to not matter really much. If you were to do a TTK calculation that includes missed shots, then it would be correct."

                                                Source: Re: Calculating Time To Kill (TTK)


                                                Quote 3: "COD has gone socialist.  Reward the weak and stupid.  Stats are meaningless.  Rigged system.  Playing hard and being the best is clearly discouraged.  Lag compensation puts good players with good connections at a big disadvantage.  This is a joke.  Activision is killing this franchise.  I will not give them my money ever again.  Great job alienating your customers.  Stubborn and moronic dont even begin to describe how this is being handled by them."

                                                Source: Re: weapons are balanced! meaning that they are all identical!? it's takes the same amount of time to kill someone wit…

                                                 

                                                Quote 4: "Ok I am NEVER playing Black Ops 2 multiplayer again, I cant get a dam kill no matter how many times I shoot someone, I waste a clip into them BUT then put one freaking bullet into me and I die, this game is stupid, MW3 runs perfectly for  me, but this is stupid, I cant get one kill any more coz they already killed me behind a corner before they even seen me, No matter what I do, no matter how hard I try, I cant get one simple kill, and to anyone who thinks about posting "well your a **** player" I will report for span and I have a legit 3 K/D and 300 SPM so yea I am a good player so dont bother with stupid replies!!! and I have dedicated internet just for my PS3, so its not my internet, treyarch need to fix this dam lag!"

                                                Source: Re: I cant get a kill due to lag!!! anyone else having this problem?



                                                Quote 5: "im tired of this .. this game and mw3 ( idk if they fixed it, but sold couple months after release ) they both take way too many shots to kill ...on b ops 2  ive seen killcams where ive got 8 plus hitmarkers on a person with a smg or ar.. seems like a whole magazine sometimes in the game, but when im getting shot by people with ar's and smg's its like playing hardcore, dead instantly"

                                                Source: takes too many shots to kill but die too fast, lag or whatever is frustrating


                                                This is but a sample, of the same sh-t complaints dudes (like) you did in BO2 forums, except their target was that game yours is Ghost. See the similarity in BS posts?

                                      • Re: Sledgehammer needs to be open to Perk rebalancing
                                        scotland-rules

                                        G I like your idea of perk balancing to an extent. However the problem I personally would have with it is the same problem I have with the weapons.

                                         

                                        Come August 2015 we'd still see perk changes and balances in patches. One thing that annoyed me about Black Ops II is that come August we were still seeing guns being patches and I mean critical weapons e.g. The KAP 40 and to be honest since perk balancing is a major thing they'd still be playing with in August next year and I for one would hate if I still didn't know my perks by then. I like the fact that perks are the only thing that'll never be touched.

                                         

                                        Now the problem in MHO is player mindest. Everyone wants to be 'hidden' or 'less detectable' and they see this as something they need. Personally I only run one Incog class and I do just fine and accept my deaths when I am killed with a tracker sight. Because 85% of the time I'll honestly admit they'd have seen me anyway.