35 Replies Latest reply: Aug 9, 2014 4:22 PM by iivrruummii RSS

    How could it... and how should it work?

    nicedrewishfela

      Ok, so we've been having discussions on here, some have degraded into arguments, about some of the things confirmed for this new title in regards to Multi-Player. Boost-Jumping, Side-jumping, the possibility of cloaking, grappling hooks... Please feel free to add anything I missed.

       

      Thus far, I have expressed my doubts and concerns about additions like the Boost Jump. Never have been a big fan of the super, or Halo-style jump. My experience with it in games has been negative, and I just didn't see it fitting into the CoD lexicon.

       

      This weekend, however, I finally got to spend some time in Titanfall for the first time.. and it really made me rethink my position quite a bit. While there was quite a bit I wasn't crazy about in that game... the freedom of movement I absolutely fell in love with. The Double Jump capability wasn't Overpowered to me, and it was done in such a way the movement felt natural. It was freeing to be able to wall climb and pretty much go wherever I wanted to go.

       

      But it worked in that game because it was implemented the right way.

       

      So basically, in this thread.. I don't want to debate whether things should or should not be in the game. Some we know are back, others could very well be in the game based on what we've seen. So, if they are going to be in the game.... let's discuss what can or should be done to make it work effectively in game. Because, let's face it.. we've seen innovations put into the game before that weren't implemented correctly.

       

      So here are a few of my thoughts on how things could and should be implemented to work effectively in game.

       

      Boost Jumping- I really liked how this worked in TF, using a double jump rather than a constant rising jump. It had a purpose, not just to jump really, really high, but to traverse the map effectively. In order to be effective, you had to learn to control it. Want to get to the top of a building? Had to double jump at the height of your jump to get more height. Want to jump a wider gap? You'd have to time your double jump longer into your jump in order to get enough distance to clear the space. It needs to require some thought and skill, or you just get people bouncing around constantly... which isn't much fun in Multiplayer games.

       

      Secondly- Map Design is KEY. Having the boost jump is simply a gimmick if it doesn't serve any real purpose. CoD has always had a limited range of motion and exploration. There are always, and have always been, limitations on where you can and can't go. We all know the invisible walls and bizarre boundaries put into CoD maps to date. In order for the Boost Jump to really reach it's full potential, we have got to be given more map freedom than ever before. Maps have to have a level of verticality and accessibility, and players have to have more freedom of movement. If done correctly, this could really help make the game more strategic and even cut down on some of the "extreme" play styles we have come to know over the years. Run and Gunners can't just run willy nilly as they have to be aware of directionality and movement of enemies, and Campers can't rely on staying in one spot as they can be attacked from multiple angles.

       

      Cloaking- In order for this work, in my opinion... it should NEVER make a player completely invisible. While they should blend in with their environment, they should still be visible through their outline, and upon discharging their weapon the cloaking ability should be disrupted.

       

      I see this working as equipment, taking over a slot in your loadout. You can turn it on and off, but the effects only last for a short while before needing to be recharged. Perhaps with the new Exo Suits we will have specialized abilities.... this could work in that regard as well.

       

      That's it for now, would love to hear your thoughts on how these implementations could, or should be used.

       

      Please feel free to discuss other new elements that I didn't touch on, since I only focused on these two.

       

      Keep it positive and remember we are discussion implementation, not arguing about if they should be in the game. Enjoy, and Happy Gaming.

        • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
          ghamorra

          Shooting a weapon while jumping should be damn near impossible. Sure you can pull the trigger but it should only be hipfire and be very hard to control. Jumping should not be something you can repeatedly do as in, you shouldn't be able to constantly double jump across the map as your only means of travel.

           

          Cloaking should be a one use thing, have multiple counters, and short use item.

            • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
              gotsomestars

              Cloaking and double jump work great in titanfall.

              The cloak is rechargeable, but it can only be activated once per charge. And if you cloak, then shoot, the shot disables it. Also once you start the cloak,your charge is gone,  so if you cloak, then immediately shoot, you cannot cloak again until it fully recharges. It takes about 4x as long to charge as it lasts so choosing when to cloak is important. Also the cloak doesn't make you invisible, it just bends the light. Its really only useful against titans. You can see a cloaked pilot very easily once you learn to look for it.

               

              The double jump also isn't as bad as I thought it would be, but I think that has more to do with map design.

               

              I don't think either one hurts the game.

              The funny thing about all of it is that its nothing that we won't adapt to. In TF if you play like you are playing cod, you will get destroyed. Adding another dimension to movement is great IMO. Just about every other shooter is boring to me now. I find myself trying to wall run and double jump every time I play.

              To be even more honest I don't think I'll be too interested in cod once destiny drops. Its just too "simple" for me after playing TF and destiny.

                • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                  Run_N_Gunning_Camper

                  Honestly, I would like the movement of AW to be as fast as TF. I have TF on PC and it is a good game. COD needs some new elements and boost jumping is a welcome addition for me. I hope we can ADS and fire while in the air with no penalty to accuracy. May the player with superior reaction, coordination and accuracy win. They need to make boost jumping deeply integrated into the gameplay and not just something that should be used tactically.

                    • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                      iivrruummii

                      These are super soldiers so they should be able to jump, shoot, and ADS at the same time.

                        • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                          FalconR6

                          Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong.

                          As far as gaming goes you want the gameplay to work. The last thing you would want is for a player that is jumping to have a large advantage.

                          Without playing the game it is impossible to know how the mechanics of such things play out.

                            • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                              iivrruummii

                              I don't see how jumping and shooting is going to be advantageous.

                               

                              With the jumping mechanics like Halo's, it will be interesting how they balance rockets, because I know that rocket launchers may be very good when jumping and shooting down because it is easier to hit a target when aiming down at them.  

                                • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                  rankismet

                                  iivrruummii wrote:

                                   

                                  I don't see how jumping and shooting is going to be advantageous.

                                   

                                  With the jumping mechanics like Halo's, it will be interesting how they balance rockets, because I know that rocket launchers may be very good when jumping and shooting down because it is easier to hit a target when aiming down at them. 

                                   

                                  Which is why people are concerned about the BJ...

                                  ... if I wanted Halo gameplay... I can play Halo.

                                   

                                  They need to make it very hard fire while... hard to the point it's a determent to try it.

                                    • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                      iivrruummii

                                      rankismet wrote:

                                       

                                      They need to make it very hard fire while... hard to the point it's a determent to try it.

                                      Why does everything need to be hard?

                                        • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                          nicedrewishfela

                                          Thats what she said.

                                           

                                          But really.. I do feel there should be a skill factor to it. Perhaps no aim assist when jumping?


                                          I just think I'd like to see jumping have a real purpose in this game.

                                          • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                            rankismet

                                            iivrruummii wrote:

                                             

                                            rankismet wrote:

                                             

                                            They need to make it very hard fire while... hard to the point it's a determent to try it.

                                            Why does everything need to be hard?

                                             

                                            Everything does not need to be hard... BJ while firing does.

                                             

                                            Otherwise... COD will simply become...

                                             

                                            ... Halo.

                                            ... Destiny.

                                             

                                            COD is not about leaping about playing Frogger.

                                             

                                            There are 2 games for that now... no need for a third.

                                              • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                                iivrruummii

                                                Why should jumping and firing be hard?  So far you have just expressed an opinion about not wanting a game that did.  What other reasons, more reasonable reasons, do you have for your argument?

                                                 

                                                I am all for having jumping and shooting in the game because it allows good players to keep moving taking out unsuspecting targets.  If people couldn't shoot while in the air, then they would have to land on the ground, and if there is an damage effect from falling, they would have to recover from that before shooting.  So basically in the time you jump once you can die if you cannot shoot or it is hard(restricted).  I don't see any reason why you would want such a good maneuver to be wasted just because you don't want the game to be like Halo and/or Destiny.

                                                  • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                                    rankismet

                                                    iivrruummii wrote:

                                                     

                                                    Why should jumping and firing be hard?  So far you have just expressed an opinion about not wanting a game that did.  What other reasons, more reasonable reasons, do you have for your argument?

                                                     

                                                    I am all for having jumping and shooting in the game because it allows good players to keep moving taking out unsuspecting targets.  If people couldn't shoot while in the air, then they would have to land on the ground, and if there is an damage effect from falling, they would have to recover from that before shooting.  So basically in the time you jump once you can die if you cannot shoot or it is hard(restricted).  I don't see any reason why you would want such a good maneuver to be wasted just because you don't want the game to be like Halo and/or Destiny.

                                                     

                                                    First off... this isn't an argument. It's my POV.

                                                     

                                                    Just read slow, please, before you jump to the conclusion I haven't expressed why...

                                                     

                                                    Firing with the BJ should be very hard... otherwise... every gun fight will become a jump fight...

                                                    ... just like Halo.

                                                    ... Just like Destiny.

                                                     

                                                    That's not COD.

                                                     

                                                    And if that is their vision of COD for AW...

                                                    ... I'm really not interested.

                                    • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                      nicedrewishfela

                                      I think we both touched on the key factor.. and that is map design. If you put boost jump on Ghosts maps.. it would be an absolute disaster and completely pointless.

                                       

                                      The Boost Jump, if only a gimmick, would ruin the game. If used in context to improve overall movement, it could make this the best CoD in a long time.

                                  • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                    vims1990

                                    Yeah, that's why I don't have too much of a problem with boost jumping or cloaking after playing Titanfall.

                                     

                                    If they are balanced well with the right counters, it should work fine. Also, I get this feeling that there may be restrictions on exo-abilities so there's always that possibility that I can't have cloaking, boost-jumping, super-strength, sliding etc on my player.

                                     

                                    But this is just based on assumptions.

                                    • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                      rankismet

                                      It will take a very, very smartly designed cloak system for me to think if it as a welcome edition.

                                       

                                      ... that said...

                                       

                                      The BJ:

                                      • Cool down system (which I believe there is)
                                      • Limited ability shoot when in use
                                      • Limited duration
                                      • Cannot be cloaked when is use
                                      • Audible sound when in use

                                       

                                      The cloak:

                                      • Cool down system (again, I think there is)
                                      • Fire and you uncloak
                                      • Get hit and you uncloak
                                      • Limited duration
                                      • Audible hum when in close proximity
                                      • Slight shimmer (like looking at a water person)
                                      • Does not hide/mask footfalls

                                       

                                      Still not excited for these features... but I'm still withholding judgement.

                                      • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                        biron_w

                                        If cloaking is in MP then I agree that it should have a cool down period after using and you should lose it after shooting or getting shot. I also think players should have a counter against it like an EMP grenade. But make it so if you're hit with the EMP whilst then you lose it but also get a longer cool down period before you can use it than you get if you're hit with the EMP when not cloaked. Something like hit with emp when cloaked = 10 second period, hit when not cloaked = 5 second period.

                                        • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                          Yppecaye_the_Dogged

                                          First post in a while.  Mostly because I haven't played Ghosts.  Now that the next title is starting to be discussed, and having briefly read up on the new advanced technological perks and player movements, I gotta say I'm not liking it too much.

                                           

                                          Here is the reason.  I know the realism issue have been discussed much over these boards.  Certainly we do not expect absolute realism; but then we expect some realism.  CoD is fun for me because of basic, and somewhat realistic (a reason me and many don't like QS but can tolerate it), gun v gun fights and gun v. gun skills.  We like the fact that a good player is a good player ultimately because he possesses good map skills.  If he has good maps skills, give him any gun, any perks, he'll do well. 

                                           

                                          This trend of super perks is bad one.  Lets compare Extreme Conditioning in past titles with Marathon in Ghosts.  IMHO, what Extreme Conditioning did for the game was to ruin the pace of the game.  But, you'll notice, any one using EC will at the beginning of the game get a slight advantage by getting that first kill.  But, as the game progresses, EC doesn't really help any more because players are now more scatterd.  And having EC can actually start to hurt your game because you'll now running too deeply into spawns and running when you should've been shooting.

                                           

                                          Ghosts' Marathon, well, make is even worse.

                                           

                                          For the skilled player, the rare death by those running EC or Marathon is an annoyance more than anything else.  Like going up against QSers in my games, all it takes is a little adjusting and they are no longer a problem.  But, again, it's quite annoying when some little kid happens to shoot you in the back because he luckily ran and ran and ran around the map, luckily having not yet seen anyone, and then finally, by happenstance, found and shot you in the back when you've skillfully maneuvered into a perfect flanking position.

                                           

                                          So now we're going to get boost jumps and cloaking, huh?  It's bad enough we already have a whole group of clowns who does the jump and drop in every single gunfight they're in.  Now they'll get a super jump.  It's bad enough to have a little kid hiding in the corner in some obscure room with a shotgun.  Now he can go further and cloak himself.

                                           

                                          Essentially, CoD for me has always been a gun v gun, ground combat game.  Instead of introducing new gimmicks to the game, they ought to try to improve the proven features CoD already has.  For example, good maps, good streaks, balance weapons, etc.

                                           

                                          Innovation is not a bad thing.  I don't need the titles to be exactly the same as the previous one.

                                           

                                          I guess this is bound to happen.  After so many titles, there will inevitably develop a group of old school players.  Players, like myself, who rely on simple loadouts, along with confidence in my map skills, to get kills and win games.  Players like myself, find the game enjoyable because of its basic and solid (and somewhat realistic) mechanics, as well as well designed maps.

                                          • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                            FalconR6

                                            This title is Adavanced Warfare. So, I'm okay with SH implementing Boost jumping, etc. To be honest I hope cloaking stays out of multiplayer, Don't get me wrong, I have played Titanfall and cloaking does fits in well.

                                            I do get the notion that my own Cod parameters and thoughts will have to be re-adjusted with AW. The game is certainly going to shake things up.

                                            I know what I'm about to say may sound rather vague....but here goes...

                                            'My only wish is that when I play AW it still feels like COD'

                                             

                                            ................................................................................ .......

                                            My concern: is not about AW per-se. But the future direction of COD.

                                            My thoughts are that with there being 3 sub-franchises (dev teams), each of these will focus in a time era. For example: SH take the future, IW take the present-day, 3arc take the past. This will give a sense of direction for the franchise as a whole. It would also maintain variety. Added bonus of all us gamers not needing to whine/push for the era we wish to go next. Possible downside of such a structure of past/present/future being that the individual studios become restricted.

                                             

                                            Here comes the concerning part: After AW we will get the next installment from 3arc. Ok, so they will follow a game that has a whole new methods of movement. I dare say a whole new way of implementing the perk system (through the exosuit). The fact that AW is futuristic opens the game wide open to innovation that make sense to the time period. But, How does 3arc step up to the plate. How does 3arc provide the same level of freedoms that a future shooter provides. How does 3arc keep all those who absolutely love the ability to boost jump and cloak happy.

                                             

                                            When I first heard/read of AW my thoughts went towards the future of COD. More specificallyI believe that the next title 3arc produce will be more pivotal to CODs ongoing success, rather than AW.

                                            • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                              Run_N_Gunning_Camper

                                              To be blunt, I want the boost jump to be as good as the one in Titan Fall. It should be a new and viable way to navigate the map. There should be no penalties that would discourage people from using it. If the accuracy is gimped then we would have players camping choke points waiting for people to boost jump. It would make boost jumping pointless. I hope AW gets this right and make like Titan Fall.

                                                • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                                  nicedrewishfela

                                                  It was about perfect on TF.... but then the maps suited it. It had a purpose. It wasn't jumping just for the sake of jumping. The maps had verticality, multiple routes, and parkour running.

                                                   

                                                  Heck there are even zip lines you can use to move between buildings.

                                                   

                                                  If they do it right, it could be amazing. If they do it wrong, it could be devastating to the future of this series.

                                                • Re: How could it... and how should it work?
                                                  mechavortex

                                                  Well I'm super tired but for the sake of cloaking, just go to about 1:44 here and see the player and his ally cloak. Yeah it's a single player clip, big deal. Official Call of Duty®: Advanced Warfare - "Animation & Art Direction" Behind the Scenes Video - YouTube