35 Replies Latest reply: Aug 15, 2014 6:24 PM by nicedrewishfela RSS

    Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks

    LeapingPanda6

      With AW I am hoping they make the killstreaks really hard to get and make them more lethal as well. I personally never had  problems with lethal killstreaks  in MW2 and I would like to see them bring back for example Pavelow but at a 15 kill streak or the AC130/Chopper gunner at 20 kill streak. This is a futuristic game so i think it would suit it well if they had some strong kill streaks. Also, these killstreaks shouldn't be achievable through point streaks or care packages. As for the support killstreaks, I don't think these killstreaks should be lethal at all, they should add things that will help you survive like ballistic vest and so on. What do you guys think? are the killstreaks kinda a weak and lame now?

        • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
          thetoobingcamper

          It depends on how you use the Killstreaks on Ghosts that decide how effective they are. I just hope there are no cheap killstreaks for kills, like the Dog or squadmate in this game, or the Paper Airplane in Blops 2, the RC car in Blops 1 etc. I really hope there isn't a support system in this game unless its built like the Assault killstreaks where when you die you start all over agian.

          • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
            thebiindsniper

            Harder to earn streaks will most likely dissuade the general population from attempting to earn them.  The highest point requirement for killstreaks was probably in MW3 via the Juggernaut and Osprey Gunner.   Nobody as willing to earn 15-17 points in a row for those streaks, which is why they mostly stuck the lower cost, yet still effective, killstreaks. 

             

            I disagree with making them too lethal, even if they're high cost.  Something like K9 units, swarms, pavelows, hellstorm missles, lightining strikes, and more made the streaks way too dominant.  In fact, they became so dominant that gun-on-gun became irrelevant since they offered 50 free kills in a row without lifting a finger.

             

            ~RUGGED SAVIOR

              • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                LeapingPanda6

                I disagree with making them less lethal. I think if a player can go on a 15 or more kills in a row they are not a casual player, they are experienced and should receive lethal killstreaks as reward. Killstreaks are short term rewards like prestige is a long term reward in the game. Having lethal/rewarding killstreaks for doing really good in a game would encourage players to continue playing.

              • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                iAmEFFeX

                I think it discourages casual, to average skilled players when the decent killstreaks take 15 - 20 kills. I think people need to feel rewarded for doing a "good" job. You shouldn't have to be a high level player to experience the exciting rewards. Sure, there should be a few top tier rewards, but don't make people feel terrible for getting a 9 streak and getting a mediocre reward. That's my opinion at least.

                 

                By the way, please no Ghosts type streaks. We need more air based rewards.

                  • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                    rankismet

                    iAmEFFeX wrote:

                     

                    By the way, please no Ghosts type streaks. We need more air based rewards.

                     

                    Why?

                     

                    SatCom is the best idea ghosts had... require multiple ones to be very effective... you don't have to scour the sky for a line of sight to kill it. Make the focus gunfights vs streak wars.

                      • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                        EBYRWA

                        Could not disagree stronger. SatCom was one of the main reasons I disliked Ghosts. Half the time I put one down I would get shot from behind and it would get destroyed right away. That and it's first iteration was just useless to me. If they are in my line of sight I will see them, not notice them on my radar.

                      • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                        gotsomestars

                        I like ghosts streaks for the most part. But then again I'm not the type to camp to 5 kills then let the scorestreak AI do the next 5 minutes of killing for me. If they are going to make more air based streaks, they are going to want to put lock on launchers back. Or SAM turrets. But, either way streaks should not be something that dominates the game(bo2).

                      • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                        BLUEMAGICxx34

                        Ghost's had good killstreaks and I agree with the satcom post, I personally liked them better than UAV's and it required multiple to be up to be of use, also I agree with the Oracle being a little to much, but I know AW will have something comparable especially with the futuristic setting so as long as there is a perk like Blind Eye to counter it I'm cool with it. Finally to the original post, just remember the higher the kills required to get a streak the more people will sit in corners to get them.

                        • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                          vims1990

                          The problem I have with this idea is that increasing the number of kills/points/score for streaks can lead to a slow paced COD title and less objective play.

                           

                          Though you may have never had a problem with MW2/BO2 streaks, I can assure you that alot of rage quitting was because of players being constantly spammed with enemy air support which led to IW making Ghosts pointstreaks more ground based and less effective. Sure on your end, those lethal streaks may have been fun but from the opposing team, spending the entire match with anti-air launchers, hiding in buildings or simply just quitting the match could have a different view on this.

                           

                          I don't mind lethal streaks(because I use the counters provided in-game) and I don't mind weaker streaks (because I do like the "gun on gun" gameplay so I'm fine either way however making streaks harder to earn won't solve anything, it will end up slowing down the game and encourage less objective play.

                            • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                              LeapingPanda6

                              I don't think a few high killstreak rewards would slow the game down much in the sense that these hard to get killstreaks would serve as short term goals for every match. Long term goal being prestiging. Since these killstreaks are hard to get the pro players will be going for them and if they earn it, i don't think it should matter if the opposing team rage quits because like you said, there are methods to combat these streaks.

                                • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                  nuttin2say

                                  vims, excellent observation regarding MW2 & BO2. By far those two games had the most powerful streak rewards and I agree, I think, overall, they turned off the bulk of the community.

                                   

                                  Leaping, you're making some good points. The only thing is that the devs are becoming more and more community-at-large focused and the community-at-large I think is sick and tired of being the laughingstock of the top 5% or 10% of players.

                                   

                                  Worse still is exactly what vims and others have pointed out - the high-end rewards are camp & boost magnets. On top of that, you get players that group together to lobby-shop for weaker players against which earning high-end rewards is "easy."

                                   

                                  Personally, I really liked the way MW3 was set up in this regard. The AC130 was powerful ... but not devastating. On top of that, you actually had a good chance of shooting it down. Same with the other higher-end rewards in that game.

                                   

                                  But where MW3 really hit its stride was with Specialist and the MOAB. At most, you got one kill per opponent when the MOAB went off. Yes, Specialist would reward you with all the perks well before you earned the MOAB, but you were still in a gun vs. gun game. You could make the MOAB game-ending, but doing so risked someone else calling in theirs first. It was a huge reward, but if the other team called it in, you didn't feel like it was pointless to keep fighting.

                                   

                                  I think that's a better high-end reward idea than an AC130 or Helo Gunship that literally spawn kills the other team until the match is over. Especially in game modes that are not kill-centric like Domination, etc.

                                    • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                      LeapingPanda6

                                      I disagree with you on the MOAB idea, personally I did not like the MOAB it was not satisfying at all. I still think the AC130/Chopper gunner or pavelow would make better high end killstreaks. As far as camping goes, that will exist in every COD game and I don't think adding a few high end killstreak will make a run-n-gun player camp. I think the people that like to camp will camp no matter how low the killstreaks because thats their gameplay style. Lastly, I don't think the top 5% or 10% of the community wants harder to earn/lethal killstreak, i think you are underestimating that percentage.

                                        • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                          nuttin2say

                                          Well, whether it is the top 5-10% or not is no longer something that can be verified. But back when we could look at stats, I could show you the crazy amount of myths that exist in this community. For example, while I do not like QS and am not shy about admitting that I don't like it, the reality is that about 10% of the community actually attempts to QS on a regular basis. Key word being "try" because of that 10%, about 10% are actually successful at the tactic. So that's 1% that are actually good at QS - hardly anything to put a lot of worry into.

                                           

                                          There's a strong temptation to justify my POV with a detailed explanation, but I don't know if you're up to a long read. Take my word for it, players with a 1.5 kdr are at least 2 std devs above the mean. And those are guys that can earn 7-10 kill streaks on a fairly reliable basis (not including boosters or dashboarders). But 12+ kills consistently? Now you're looking at 1.75+ guys. I don't think you enter the consistent 18+ kill streak area until you get into the 2.25 kdr area.

                                           

                                          Consistent = average of 1 per game.

                                           

                                          Yeah, you're talking about 10% of players, max. Probably more like 5% or less.

                                           

                                          In any case, it doesn't have to be a MOAB but the idea of getting to something that everyone within the match recognizes as a 20 or 25 or 30 kill reward is a good idea. Does it have to be something that makes me invincible and allows me to literally spawn kill the opposing team?

                                           

                                          Well, this is the way I look at it ... back in MW2, running up 100+ kills in a match with 50+ kill streaks was, indeed, fun as hell.

                                           

                                          For me.

                                           

                                          But for the guys getting slaughtered? Not so much. And I don't blame them for cracking their COD disc and never buying again. Frankly, I believe that is exactly what happened with BO2. It was fun as hell for the guys running up 200+ kills in a game of Dom. But then you had more complaints about back outs and more complaints about the probation system ...

                                           

                                          ... and about 10 million less sales of Ghosts.

                                  • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                    Bielsalmighty

                                    Wait, we say we dont want easily attained lethal streaks and then cite MW2? Because streaks were so hard to get in that game right? Slap on Hardline, 4 kills gets you a predator missile which can easily get the 2 kills to put you up to a harrier which is then quite capable of nabbing the 4 more kills needed for an AC-130 or a Chopper Gunner. Yeah, that was properly hard wasn't it...

                                      • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                        LeapingPanda6

                                        I was referring to MW2 for its lethal killstreak, and I also went on to say that they should be increased to 15 - 20 kills. Sorry for the confusion

                                          • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                            Bielsalmighty

                                            I'm all for powerful killstreaks, they are deffo fun. The problem is people commonly back out when they come in. Doesn't matter how often or rarely they come in, quitters still gonna quit. Having people zat out of the lobby on the occasional instance you get your top streak would be more frustrating than normal.

                                             

                                            Not that I'm sitting here shouting YOU ARE WRONG BLAAAAAA btw, just looking at this from every angle. This is a problem that hasn't been solved properly since MW2 brought in the more beastly streaks.

                                        • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                          phxs72

                                          Here's the thing about streaks.  You really want something between BO2 and Ghosts.  Ghosts did a good job of toning things down but it went just a little too far.  BO2 had me running Blind Eye all the time which eliminated most of the streaks but still it would have been nice to be able to run something else.  Perhaps we can merge the Ghosts ground based concept with some of BO2 style aerial and a couple of quick strike mid tier options?  I don't have an issue with there being a high streak (BO2 had a 19 after all) but it either needs to be quick strike or it needs a counter like the Swarm did in BO2.  Otherwise you'll have people backing out every time that it gets called in.

                                          • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                            nicedrewishfela

                                            I think killstreaks are fine.

                                             

                                            The game needs to focus on Player v Player with the streaks as a supplement for play. No need for them to dominate game play.

                                             

                                            Streaks should never unlock further streaks, that should be completely on the player.

                                             

                                            Streaks should be fun, quick to use, but not dominant. I'd like to see them require a little more skill to use than they have in the past.

                                            • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                              Carvalho16

                                              If streaks are too weak then you just supplement the party dominating the random mentality.

                                               

                                              Give the lone wolfs the power to change the game and be rewarded accordingly.

                                                • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                                  nuttin2say

                                                  Carvalho16 wrote:

                                                   

                                                  If streaks are too weak then you just supplement the party dominating the random mentality.

                                                   

                                                  Give the lone wolfs the power to change the game and be rewarded accordingly.

                                                   

                                                  Agreed 100%. That was the beauty of Specialist and Support in MW3. A single player could change the momentum of the game.

                                                   

                                                  Look, if we're not going to separate parties from randoms, then at least give lone wolf players the legitimate means to overcome the parties. Instead, what the devs have done is gone in the direction of rewarding party play to the point that lone wolves no longer bother trying.

                                                   

                                                  In fact, they don't even bother buying the game - re: Ghosts.

                                                • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                                  ghamorra

                                                  The flip side to harder to earn streaks is that the party players benefit far to easily as well. The lone wolf typically finds themselves never coming close to earning one, even if they're a good player their average life span will never reach a point where they can obtain. However, the party, if team oriented will support each other until they can reach those high end streaks easily. I look back to Black Ops II where my friends all ran VSAT and then Lodestar, SWARM, Dogs, VTOL. It was a never ending chain of VSATs and therefore a never ending chain of the highest Scorestreaks. Easy as pie.

                                                   

                                                  The best way to handle this is making Support streaks worthwhile. Recently Support hasn't exactly been worth the use, they often don't even do anything for the team. I still don't know why the SatComm even made it's way in Ghosts. Support needs to help the team as a whole and only then can a lone wolf make an impact against parties because parties will always think highly of themselves and try to overwhelm their opponent. Making the Support streaks a "party killer" via passive but wildly effective can really change the game for the better.

                                                    • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                                      nuttin2say

                                                      Well, ghamorra, what you posted is EXACTLY why I felt that Support, as introduced in MW3, worked just fine. Yes, there were parties that were abusing Support in that game, but even if you had a team abusing Support a decent lone wolf could eff it all up for the opposing party abusing the set up.

                                                       

                                                      And why is Support no longer worthwhile?

                                                       

                                                      Because we have to cater to the minority of players who party up to humiliate casual randoms. The sad part is that there are good parties/clans out there that play good, hard games and it is fun to play against them, even as a random. But the temptation to humiliate opposing players is just too great, I guess.

                                                      • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                                        Carvalho16

                                                        Support in Ghosts is much better and far more useful than Assault though...

                                                         

                                                        If that is weak then lord knows what Assault is.

                                                          • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                                            ghamorra

                                                            The reason Assault wasn't worthwhile was due to the lack of effectiveness. The maps didn't really make them effective at all because the map size was far to big meaning a players streak was often only effective up to 5-10% of the map. Also, and play controlled streak which is hard to earn often only had limited areas where there was enough open space to do work. For the most part, many maps didn't favor Assault's high end streaks.

                                                             

                                                            Support was much more viable on a consistent basis. Overall, I think Specialist was the best option.

                                                          • Re: Harder to earn/lethal killstreaks
                                                            LeapingPanda6

                                                            I agree that a party would have much easier time attaining high killstreaks compared to lone wolfs. Now that AW has been revealed and after watching the release event, the developers did not talk about variations of killstreaks. For example, they didn't specifically say there will be support streaks and etc... they just revealed killstreaks that are customizable. Based on this information, I believe killstreaks will be hard to combat. Also seeing how quickly the guns kill in AW, I believe it will be hard to attain these killstreaks as well. These are my speculations.