27 Replies Latest reply: Aug 13, 2014 5:51 PM by rankismet RSS

    This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers

    IDontKnowlol

      Well, we all know how bad the lag is on the other COD's and this COD will be no different unless they introduce dedicated servers to this game. I don't believe Ghosts had Dedicated Servers for matchmaking. it was only used for Stat-Holding.

       

      Ghosts lag was terrible and this game will be worse as it will likely have much higher spec requirements for PC players which means more data for matchmaking and gameplay. Thus will increase the lag without a solution.

       

      In my opinion, if they had dedicated servers for this game, it would have probably been the first thing they announced, and they have yet to do so. So I doubt we will get them. No servers, no purchase.

        • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
          Izjar11

          IDontKnowlol wrote:

          No servers, no purchase.

          If you are not happy with previous titles, best thing to do is to stay away.

          • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
            rankismet

            IDontKnowlol wrote:

             

            Well, we all know how bad the lag is on the other COD's and this COD will be no different unless they introduce dedicated servers to this game. I don't believe Ghosts had Dedicated Servers for matchmaking. it was only used for Stat-Holding.

             

            Ghosts lag was terrible and this game will be worse as it will likely have much higher spec requirements for PC players which means more data for matchmaking and gameplay. Thus will increase the lag without a solution.

             

            In my opinion, if they had dedicated servers for this game, it would have probably been the first thing they announced, and they have yet to do so. So I doubt we will get them. No servers, no purchase.

             

            Dedicated servers do not reduce lag.

             

            The more you know.

              • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                IDontKnowlol

                The lag between players will decrease, dramatically. There will be no more host advantage.

                 

                You'd be an idiot to say it doesn't help with reducing lag. i.e if we don't have dedicated servers, the game will lag more and for a few simple reasons. Obviously there are more factors which contribute:

                 

                A player has to host. I.e You would host the game, putting you at a disadvantage to others. That means everyone in the lobby would have to contact you to get the game information to display on screen. That's really bad especially for a shooter and fps game. That means, if someone is over the other side of the world from you, they receive a ginormous amount of lag and desync. This means, everyone in the game will have either less lag or more lag which again is stupid, for a game. With a game like BF, everyone is contacted based on their Geographical area like in the US. Therefore lag for each player is drastically reduced. Also, running the information from a stand-alone server, eliminates host advantage and reduced the need for lag compensation, thereby further reducing lag in-game.

                 

                In simple terms, you're saying,you can't reduce lag by using dedicated servers. You're wrong. Dedicated servers run the server for the game, and are DEDICATED to it. They don't have to run the console operating system like PS4 or Xbox One, therefore the information will be passed faster through this type of server, than from a console, which is processing more than just data for the game.

                 

                The more you know...

                  • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                    phxs72

                    This all presumes that the dedi is close to you.  If the dedi is further away than your standard host now, it's entirely possible that you will lag more than you are used to.  All that the dedi really provides is a more consistent lag.  Whether that's a positive or a negative depends solely on your ping to the dedi.  Much like your ping to the host in the current system works.

                     

                    You are right about one thing though, there would be no host advantage or disadvantage with dedi's because the dedi isn't trying to play the game.

                     

                    You may be wondering if I like the idea of dedi's.  The answer is yes I do but then again I live in a highly populated area and likely would have one near enough by me to be a positive.  However, I also like that they maintain the peer to peer system so that if I want to get nostalgic and play an older title, I don't have to worry about the server not being there to support it.  The hybrid system is the best of both worlds.

                    • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                      rankismet

                      IDontKnowlol wrote:

                       

                      The lag between players will decrease, dramatically. There will be no more host advantage.

                       

                      The lack of host advantage =/= the lack of lag.

                       

                      IDontKnowlol wrote:

                       

                      You'd be an idiot to say it doesn't help with reducing lag. i.e if we don't have dedicated servers, the game will lag more and for a few simple reasons. Obviously there are more factors which contribute:

                       

                      Nah... you'd be an idiot if you think dedis affect lag. Lag is about ping.

                       

                      IDontKnowlol wrote:

                       

                      A player has to host. I.e You would host the game, putting you at a disadvantage to others. That means everyone in the lobby would have to contact you to get the game information to display on screen. That's really bad especially for a shooter and fps game. That means, if someone is over the other side of the world from you, they receive a ginormous amount of lag and desync. This means, everyone in the game will have either less lag or more lag which again is stupid, for a game. With a game like BF, everyone is contacted based on their Geographical area like in the US. Therefore lag for each player is drastically reduced. Also, running the information from a stand-alone server, eliminates host advantage and reduced the need for lag compensation, thereby further reducing lag in-game.

                       

                      I get you don't get how network infrastructure works... and really don't get what lag compensation is.

                       

                      Dedicated servers eliminate host migrations, offer improved security... that's about it. If player A pings a listen server host at 100ms... and he pings a dedicated server at 100ms... the connection is improved how? Proper host selection and matchmaking are what matters not if it's a listen or dedicated server architecture.

                       

                      If you are playing with a person on the other side of the world... it's gonna suck. Dedis don't overcome geography. Also... if you have a group of 5k players who ping the nearest dedi farm at 250ms... yet ping each other at 50ms... how is that better for them? They would benefit from listen servers. This is why Ghosts had a hybrid model of dedis and listen server.

                       

                      IDontKnowlol wrote:

                       

                      In simple terms, you're saying,you can't reduce lag by using dedicated servers. You're wrong. Dedicated servers run the server for the game, and are DEDICATED to it. They don't have to run the console operating system like PS4 or Xbox One, therefore the information will be passed faster through this type of server, than from a console, which is processing more than just data for the game.

                       

                      The more you know...

                       

                      Nah... I'm not wrong... but you can continue to believe so.

                       

                      TTFN.

                        • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                          IDontKnowlol

                          i wasn't explaining that Dedicated Servers will ultimately eliminate lag. I know it's not possible to eliminate lag. In anything for that matter. Please show me the part where I said it would totally eliminate lag. If you actually read my full comments, I explain how having servers Geographically (I guess you have no idea what that means) means that most people will have a much better time connecting and the connection will be better. Read up on it before commenting because you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

                           

                          To me it seems like you assumed I meant just Dedicated Servers at (X,X) coordinates. No that would be stupid. You do what Microsoft does where it places Server farms across the globe so the most needed players get the good connection. If you have ever played Titanfall, you can see the difference dedicated servers make.

                           

                          I think you missed the point since I created the thread. In COD, there is no noticeable "game" lag but mostly "player" lag (where you shoot behind someone and still kill them). This is what will be eliminated. From, this, Ping will be reduced a lot as the server will be close. You can't play at a server across the other side of the globe unless you opt to. Hope you see the bigger picture.

                           

                          "If player A pings a listen server host at 100ms... and he pings a dedicated server at 100ms... the connection is improved how?"

                          The connection isn't improved, because You wouldn't select a server with 100ms ping anyway... It picks the closest one to you. The nearest Server if placed as good as Titanfalls for me in the UK is 29ms. can you complain with that speed? I don't think so.

                           

                          "5k players who ping the nearest dedi farm at 250ms... yet ping each other at 50ms... how is that better for them?"

                          The point is, the nearest dedifarm, I can assure you won't be 250ms away. That would on the other side of the globe, again assuming your using MS servers (Which are free on Console). Sure, 5,000 players are going to be within 50ms of the host... yeah I see how... not.

                           

                          Please do more research. I doubt you even know the basics of what I am talking about.

                            • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                              phxs72

                              My only thought here is that the presumption is that there is no associated cost involved in having as many dedis available as you want.  Therefore, everyone will have a dedi near them.  I don't run dedi farms but just applying a little logic here, I would think that to be a poor assumption.  Each dedi is going to need some sort of software support to host a match.  That software is going to take up some amount of space.  Probably not a lot of space but in the world of computers space is a premium.  So I would think that the natural inclination for companies would be to get as much bang for their buck as they can out of their server space.  In other words they would rather dedicate one server for 100,000 players than dedicate 10 servers for 10,000 players each.  I could be wrong on this but I doubt that I am.  It would explain why when Ghosts launched that several major cities in the USA didn't have a dedi anywhere near them.  I would imagine that the reason is each dedi farm comes with a fixed operational cost associated to it.  The more farms that you make available the more those fixed costs grow.  I suppose this is why in the PC world there are often more servers available to rent than there are provided by the game manufacturer.  Those fixed costs add up.  Based on this theory (hypothesis really), it stands to reason that a dedi system may or may not be beneficial to an individual depending on their proximity to the available farm.

                                • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                                  IDontKnowlol

                                  I totally agree. Not every single person can benefit from it unless they are close enough to a Dedi farm. That is why they does use P2P and that's acceptable but there is another problem. With Dedi farms, you only connect to players who use that dedifarm. So if you think, those people you are playing with are going to be fairly close to even use that farm. That will make the game better than currently.  In P2P, you might have players which are close, but also players which are very far away. There are problems with both.

                                   

                                  I just like to look at the companies which have Dedicated Servers and companies which don't and what value in money they earn per game. I don't think it's the first or last time we'll hear that COD is the most Grossed Video game series... and the rest of it. I'm sure they can afford this type of technology. EA has great servers for their games. I think IW and Treyarch are the only companies which still use P2P in such a high grossing game. To me, it more of a backhand as a customer. We who pour our wallets into it to get no improvements for the game.

                                   

                                  I think the only underlying problem with this game is Lag which can be near-enough (not totally) resolved to a more playable level. e.g I can't actually play COD anymore because of the way the Multiplayer works. Players leech my connection (because there's is so bad) and you end up with me hosting the game with, player sync and lag. It's the same with the other COD's up to, MW3. After that, I can play fine. That's the part which the devs didn't talk about. (I'm always host 99% of the time)

                                    • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                                      rankismet

                                      IDontKnowlol wrote:

                                       

                                      I totally agree. Not every single person can benefit from it unless they are close enough to a Dedi farm. That is why they does use P2P and that's acceptable but there is another problem. With Dedi farms, you only connect to players who use that dedifarm. So if you think, those people you are playing with are going to be fairly close to even use that farm. That will make the game better than currently.  In P2P, you might have players which are close, but also players which are very far away. There are problems with both.

                                       

                                      I just like to look at the companies which have Dedicated Servers and companies which don't and what value in money they earn per game. I don't think it's the first or last time we'll hear that COD is the most Grossed Video game series... and the rest of it. I'm sure they can afford this type of technology. EA has great servers for their games. I think IW and Treyarch are the only companies which still use P2P in such a high grossing game. To me, it more of a backhand as a customer. We who pour our wallets into it to get no improvements for the game.

                                       

                                      I think the only underlying problem with this game is Lag which can be near-enough (not totally) resolved to a more playable level. e.g I can't actually play COD anymore because of the way the Multiplayer works. Players leech my connection (because there's is so bad) and you end up with me hosting the game with, player sync and lag. It's the same with the other COD's up to, MW3. After that, I can play fine. That's the part which the devs didn't talk about. (I'm always host 99% of the time)

                                       

                                      COD uses listen servers... not P2P.

                                       

                                      You may think that's unimportant... but it's not. It's more bad information being passed around as fact.

                                       

                                      Much like the things you are saying dedis bring to the table are urban legends. Dedicated servers do nothing for lag. They can render more objects and lessen the graphic burden on a client (think Titanfall) but every player still has to ping the dedi... and where there is difference in ping... there will still be lag.

                                       

                                      Your opinion of EA servers is 100% opposite of mine from both experience and value.

                                  • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                                    Izjar11

                                    IDontKnowlol wrote:

                                     

                                    Please show me the part where I said it would totally eliminate lag.

                                    I hate to point the obvious but your thread reads as if that's exactly what your saying

                                     

                                    "Well, we all know how bad the lag is on the other COD's and this COD will be no different unless they introduce dedicated servers to this game"

                                     

                                    You don't have to get defensive, the matter of fact is you sound like those who simply don't know how or what dedis do, no offense what you write is sounds incorrect. Perhaps rewording your post, would make it clearer to us readers what you are attempting to say.

                                     

                                    Cheers.

                            • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                              Bielsalmighty

                              Dedi's wont eliminate everything. They will however mean no more host who rigged up a potato field to act as his router.

                               

                              I played Titanfall when it was at its zenith. Believe you me there was still latency. The main difference was it was at a constant level, so one could adjust and acclimatise to it without fear of a change of host between games, or the hosts housemate turning on netflix or whatever.

                              • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                                thebiindsniper

                                Correction:  The game will be full of lag if theater mode returns, if there's a lack of matchmaking ping settings, and if people continue to use walmart/mcdonalds wifi connections.

                                 

                                If the developers say the game itself has next gen in mind, then perhaps the cloud servers on Xbox One can boost the connection speeds, but the previous gen consoles won't get them.  That's my guess anyway.

                                 

                                ~RUGGED SAVIOR

                                • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                                  Jackky360

                                  Agreed, lag makes the multiplayer of games a lot less enjoyable and COD is one of the worst games for lag, however I will admit I experienced very little lag on Ghosts compared to past CODS. That might have just been me though.

                                  • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                                    nicedrewishfela

                                    Until we are all on one global LAN with everyone having equality in their connections, there will always be lag.

                                     

                                    Dedis aren't a magical cure for that. They help in some ways, and make things worse in other ways.

                                     

                                    What won't change, no matter what, is the player base blaming their shortcomings on lag or lag comp.

                                    • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                                      Shadowelite555

                                      You know that even dedicated servers have lag, right? And every online game ever created has lag, right?

                                      • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                                        gotsomestars

                                        Oh good ! Another person who has zero idea what they are talking about. Today's quota has been met.

                                         

                                        At least their name explains it.

                                        • Re: This game will be full of lag without Dedicated servers
                                          biron_w

                                          I want dedicated servers but only to eliminate the host dashboarding(which is a massive problem in COD) and also so the game doesn't pick the worst host possible resulting in the entire lobby leaving within the first 20 seconds.