41 Replies Latest reply: Aug 27, 2014 7:25 AM by Bielsalmighty RSS

    HC Team Killing

    LifeSong1

      Does anyone know for sure how Team Killing will be handled in AW? Treyarch always used the 3 times and you are kicked. IW tends to favor the killing of yourself instead of your teammate. 

       

      I for one can't stand the killing of yourself due to the issues with the game not telling me whether they are friend or foe. I know they are introducing a new reticle based on whether you are aiming at a teammate or enemy, but I'm guessing it will have the same issues as if a person is behind a car (it is like it doesn't know you are aiming at a person).  I'd much rather have the 3 times and you are kicked option or the ability to kick a player if they Team Kill more than 3 times. Everyone has their preference, but my question here is what AW will be doing. Has anyone heard an official answer to this yet?

        • Re: HC Team Killing
          rankismet

          LifeSong1 wrote:

           

          Does anyone know for sure how Team Killing will be handled in AW? Treyarch always used the 3 times and you are kicked. IW tends to favor the killing of yourself instead of your teammate.

           

          I for one can't stand the killing of yourself due to the issues with the game not telling me whether they are friend or foe. I know they are introducing a new reticle based on whether you are aiming at a teammate or enemy, but I'm guessing it will have the same issues as if a person is behind a car (it is like it doesn't know you are aiming at a person).  I'd much rather have the 3 times and you are kicked option or the ability to kick a player if they Team Kill more than 3 times. Everyone has their preference, but my question here is what AW will be doing. Has anyone heard an official answer to this yet?

           

          Not revealed yet.

           

          But I really do not want silly ricochet. 3x TK and kick is fine... but there might be better ways to deal with it.

            • Re: HC Team Killing
              LifeSong1

              The only issue that I have with the 3x TK and kick option is it is that you need a way to deal with griefers who don't team kill but are always throwing flash grenades and other things to irritate you...who sit in front of you and try to force you to get kicked. They can be worse than the team-killing to be honest.  It sucks being shot by a teammate but it also sucks being one kill away from a good scorestreak only to shoot a player that looks like an enemy only to find out it was your teammate....

              • Re: HC Team Killing
                maccabi

                rankismet wrote:

                 

                LifeSong1 wrote:

                 

                Does anyone know for sure how Team Killing will be handled in AW? Treyarch always used the 3 times and you are kicked. IW tends to favor the killing of yourself instead of your teammate.

                 

                I for one can't stand the killing of yourself due to the issues with the game not telling me whether they are friend or foe. I know they are introducing a new reticle based on whether you are aiming at a teammate or enemy, but I'm guessing it will have the same issues as if a person is behind a car (it is like it doesn't know you are aiming at a person).  I'd much rather have the 3 times and you are kicked option or the ability to kick a player if they Team Kill more than 3 times. Everyone has their preference, but my question here is what AW will be doing. Has anyone heard an official answer to this yet?

                 

                Not revealed yet.

                 

                But I really do not want silly ricochet. 3x TK and kick is fine... but there might be better ways to deal with it.

                *cough* posted this before this thread too   wake up Ran

                 

                Boom Hardcore is team kill #Confirmed

                  • Re: HC Team Killing
                    rankismet

                    maccabi wrote:

                     

                    rankismet wrote:

                     

                    LifeSong1 wrote:

                     

                    Does anyone know for sure how Team Killing will be handled in AW? Treyarch always used the 3 times and you are kicked. IW tends to favor the killing of yourself instead of your teammate.

                     

                    I for one can't stand the killing of yourself due to the issues with the game not telling me whether they are friend or foe. I know they are introducing a new reticle based on whether you are aiming at a teammate or enemy, but I'm guessing it will have the same issues as if a person is behind a car (it is like it doesn't know you are aiming at a person).  I'd much rather have the 3 times and you are kicked option or the ability to kick a player if they Team Kill more than 3 times. Everyone has their preference, but my question here is what AW will be doing. Has anyone heard an official answer to this yet?

                     

                    Not revealed yet.

                     

                    But I really do not want silly ricochet. 3x TK and kick is fine... but there might be better ways to deal with it.

                    *cough* posted this before this thread too   wake up Ran

                     

                    Boom Hardcore is team kill #Confirmed

                     

                    HAHAHA... What I get for having a deployment to run at 7am PDT... I'm still barely awake...

                • Re: HC Team Killing
                  LifeSong1

                  Well...here's the official answer:

                   

                  http://www.charlieintel.com/2014/08/20/advanced-warfares-hardcore-mode-penalties -will-be-based-on-number-of-team-kills-not-ricochet/

                   

                  @Six7_Tango team kill. Definitely.

                   

                   

                  — Michael Condrey (@MichaelCondrey) August 20, 2014

                  • Re: HC Team Killing
                    nicedrewishfela

                    Looking forward to further details to how they are going to handle this. Will it be 3 and out? More? Less?

                     

                    Just glad Ricochet is gone.

                    • Re: HC Team Killing
                      brsox

                      Hopefully Ricochet will be back. I hate being killed by careless, selfish team mates.

                        • Re: HC Team Killing
                          nicedrewishfela

                          It won't be. Proper Hard Core is returning, per Michael Condrey (and linked above and below)

                           

                          Advanced Warfare’s Hardcore Mode penalties will be based on number of team kills, not Ricochet – Charlie INTEL: Call of …

                          • Re: HC Team Killing
                            biron_w

                            Stop running in front of people when they're shooting and you won't get killed.

                            • Re: HC Team Killing
                              LifeSong1

                              brsox wrote:

                               

                              Hopefully Ricochet will be back. I hate being killed by careless, selfish team mates.

                              What many people who make that statement don't seem to comprehend is that most team kills aren't due to being careless and selfish but instead due to the game issues where it doesn't properly highlight that you are shooting at a teammate. Enemies and teammates can look identical due to the ability to customize your appearance. If they had proper implementation of the identification system I may not mind ricochet but the way it is now is just not a good implementation.

                                • Re: HC Team Killing
                                  nicedrewishfela

                                  Yes and no. It does cause issues, but aware players can usually distinguish.

                                   

                                  rankismet brought up that they have Friend/Foe Indicators on some of the Optics in this game which should help significantly. Hopefully the unis for each team will be distinctive enough to cause less confusion.

                                    • Re: HC Team Killing
                                      LifeSong1

                                      Ghosts made it hard to be aware. They completely removed the mini map and they allow the enemy and friendlies to look identical. I'm aware but that doesn't mean I'm not going to stand and wait for an enemy to move out of their cover to show me whether they are actually an enemy.

                                       

                                      The new game optics sound nice but if they use the same system it will have the same issue so I don't see how that will be any better.

                                        • Re: HC Team Killing
                                          nicedrewishfela

                                          Ghosts made it harder due to the skins for sure, but I still haven't ever had any major issues with it.

                                           

                                          My biggest beef beyond the occasionally disappearing name tag was the fact that streaks over which I had no Control (Mortar Strike on WarHawk for example) would kill my teammates.

                                           

                                          If you aren't going to let me make a tactical decision about where to drop my streak.. don't punish me when YOU drop it on my teammates.

                                           

                                          Beyond that, it is still far too easy to blame teammates or the game for TK's/Ricochet Deaths. Fact is, 95% of those can be avoided by aware, alert players.

                                      • Re: HC Team Killing
                                        brsox

                                        I find most of the time, people have the "me first" mindset. Until they get 3 TKs and face ejection from the game, they are careless and selfish. I'm tired of dying from stupid, sloppy team mates. Their sloppiness needs to be placed back on them.

                                    • Re: HC Team Killing
                                      scotland-rules

                                      I'd like Ricochet to return because I personally feel the other player should be responsible for any bullets that come my way. I don't know how many I've felt the dull thud of my team mates bullets in the back of my head because we've been running down a hall, me slightly ahead and an enemy has popped out and I kill him but my stupid team mate behind me shoots as well and I'd be dead because of that.

                                       

                                      Second is Kill Streaks, too many times have I had ignorant team mates drop a streak on me because I'm near two guys.

                                       

                                      Furthermore the amount of team killing trolling that goes on in Black Ops 2 was enough to put me off.

                                       

                                      Sure things like this can happen with ricochet but much less.

                                        • Re: HC Team Killing
                                          rankismet

                                          scotland-rules wrote:

                                           

                                          I'd like Ricochet to return because I personally feel the other player should be responsible for any bullets that come my way. I don't know how many I've felt the dull thud of my team mates bullets in the back of my head because we've been running down a hall, me slightly ahead and an enemy has popped out and I kill him but my stupid team mate behind me shoots as well and I'd be dead because of that.

                                           

                                          Second is Kill Streaks, too many times have I had ignorant team mates drop a streak on me because I'm near two guys.

                                           

                                          Furthermore the amount of team killing trolling that goes on in Black Ops 2 was enough to put me off.

                                           

                                          Sure things like this can happen with ricochet but much less.

                                           

                                          I would like to able to report people for TK's... I do report them for exploiting...

                                           

                                          ... but they at least need to show total TK's and Average TK's per game. That way... you know who to avoid or block.

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          I don't want to lose what is an essential element in HC because of trolling BK's,

                                            • Re: HC Team Killing
                                              scotland-rules

                                              rankismet wrote:

                                               

                                              scotland-rules wrote:

                                               

                                              I'd like Ricochet to return because I personally feel the other player should be responsible for any bullets that come my way. I don't know how many I've felt the dull thud of my team mates bullets in the back of my head because we've been running down a hall, me slightly ahead and an enemy has popped out and I kill him but my stupid team mate behind me shoots as well and I'd be dead because of that.

                                               

                                              Second is Kill Streaks, too many times have I had ignorant team mates drop a streak on me because I'm near two guys.

                                               

                                              Furthermore the amount of team killing trolling that goes on in Black Ops 2 was enough to put me off.

                                               

                                              Sure things like this can happen with ricochet but much less.

                                               

                                              I would like to able to report people for TK's... I do report them for exploiting...

                                               

                                              ... but they at least need to show total TK's and Average TK's per game. That way... you know who to avoid or block.

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              I don't want to lose what is an essential element in HC because of trolling BK's,

                                              Name and Shame won't work and reporting them....I'm not even convinced the reporting of cheating players e.g. ones that are hacked are even dealt with.

                                                • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                  rankismet

                                                  scotland-rules wrote:

                                                   

                                                  rankismet wrote:

                                                   

                                                  scotland-rules wrote:

                                                   

                                                  I'd like Ricochet to return because I personally feel the other player should be responsible for any bullets that come my way. I don't know how many I've felt the dull thud of my team mates bullets in the back of my head because we've been running down a hall, me slightly ahead and an enemy has popped out and I kill him but my stupid team mate behind me shoots as well and I'd be dead because of that.

                                                   

                                                  Second is Kill Streaks, too many times have I had ignorant team mates drop a streak on me because I'm near two guys.

                                                   

                                                  Furthermore the amount of team killing trolling that goes on in Black Ops 2 was enough to put me off.

                                                   

                                                  Sure things like this can happen with ricochet but much less.

                                                   

                                                  I would like to able to report people for TK's... I do report them for exploiting...

                                                   

                                                  ... but they at least need to show total TK's and Average TK's per game. That way... you know who to avoid or block.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  I don't want to lose what is an essential element in HC because of trolling BK's,

                                                  Name and Shame won't work and reporting them....I'm not even convinced the reporting of cheating players e.g. ones that are hacked are even dealt with.

                                                   

                                                  Who knows if reporting works... but I would like to know some guy in the lobby averages 2.5 TK's a game so I can block him.

                                              • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                nicedrewishfela

                                                It takes away a huge element of HC, which is awareness.

                                                  • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                    scotland-rules

                                                    nicedrewishfela wrote:

                                                     

                                                    It takes away a huge element of HC, which is awareness.

                                                    And if the Hardcore community as a whole wasn't greedy and could be aware of other players and respect them I'd be all for Ricochet being removed but guess what? They don't respect you, they'll shoot you to get a kill. So......

                                                     

                                                    By playing Ghosts and MW3 I've seen how often you can be team killed. Playing Black Ops 2 I was team killed in a lot of games and a lot of time the trolling was actually worse than trolling via Ricochet.

                                                     

                                                    Everyone should take responsibility for their own actions, by the time 3tk kick system kicks in, they could have already killed me three times and ruined my game.

                                                     

                                                    If my KS didn't reset and I got to pick my spawn after I was TK I'd maybe be happier about having it but considering BO2 had lots of team killing in it....no way.

                                                      • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                        nicedrewishfela

                                                        The HC community as a whole is greedy?

                                                         

                                                        You must be playing in different Lobbies.

                                                          • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                            scotland-rules

                                                            nicedrewishfela wrote:

                                                             

                                                            The HC community as a whole is greedy?

                                                             

                                                            You must be playing in different Lobbies.

                                                            Why focus on one word I used? I made a perfectly valid post but focus on one word I used.

                                                             

                                                            I obviously don't obviously mean the entire community but a vast majority would shoot through me to get a kill. That's why I like Ricochet is everyone takes responsibility for their own actions, sometimes it doesn't work perfectly but most of the time it works wonders. Why give a dickhead the ability to kill 3 times without repercussion? 

                                                             

                                                            Classic scenario - Me and my team are running down a hallway, I'm ahead by a quarter to half a meter. Enemy pops up, I go to kill him and I die because my team mate has tried to kill him and got me in the process because I'm in front or I'll kill the guy and my team mate will kill me because they've tried get him as well.

                                                             

                                                            It happened way too often on Black Ops 2 and older CoDs that didn't have Ricochet.

                                                              • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                                nicedrewishfela

                                                                You don't design a game around the worst element.

                                                                 

                                                                I have played HC in every CoD with Online MP. I have found that the majority of players in HC aren't trolls, they don't want to TK. They want to play the game how it is meant to be played. I had my share of bad experiences, but overall I found that most HC players TK on accident. Every time I TK I apologize, and I find most players do the same. Trolls get bored quick and leave.

                                                                 

                                                                Hardcore with ricochet really isn't hardcore. It leads to more selfish play. Players stop paying attention to where they are going. They are careless with equipment and scorestreaks. It isn't how Hardcore is meant to be played. Part of Hardcore is weapon control. Part of Hardcore is awareness. Part of Hardcore is knowing what setups to use and what to avoid.

                                                                 

                                                                FF on is Hardcore. It adds strategy and tactics that Ricochet removes. Done right it makes HC a better experience. 3 TKs and you are out. Increased Spawn In time after each TK, as a punishment discourages players from TKing... nobody wants to sit around.

                                                                 

                                                                HC players have been made Greedier by the Ricochet system. They no longer have to Think or communicate. I have seen so many players just running around cluelessly in HC, putting themselves and their teammates at risk. Why? Because there is no penalty to them. Their teammates pay the price. In Core, you can be careless and shoot through teammates. HC adds the element of putting your teammates' lives in your hands as well as having the awareness to protect your own.

                                                                 

                                                                Honestly, Ricochet was the product of unaware players being upset at getting TK'd and whinging about it. They didn't want to take any responsibility for their actions or have to be aware of their surroundings, and sadly IW caved and we've been stuck with it since. It's great that SledgeHammer recognizes what made Hard Core great in this series and has finally listened to the dedicated HC players and gone back to it's roots.

                                                                 

                                                                I have adapted to Ricochet. I do fine with it and I rarely have any issues... but then I credit that to having had FF on in earlier titles where I learned that discipline.

                                                                 

                                                                I am so glad it is back, and I am sure other HC players are as well.

                                                                  • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                                    scotland-rules

                                                                    nicedrewishfela wrote:

                                                                     

                                                                    You don't design a game around the worst element.

                                                                     

                                                                    I have played HC in every CoD with Online MP. I have found that the majority of players in HC aren't trolls, they don't want to TK. They want to play the game how it is meant to be played. I had my share of bad experiences, but overall I found that most HC players TK on accident. Every time I TK I apologize, and I find most players do the same. Trolls get bored quick and leave.

                                                                     

                                                                    Hardcore with ricochet really isn't hardcore. It leads to more selfish play. Players stop paying attention to where they are going. They are careless with equipment and scorestreaks. It isn't how Hardcore is meant to be played. Part of Hardcore is weapon control. Part of Hardcore is awareness. Part of Hardcore is knowing what setups to use and what to avoid.

                                                                     

                                                                    FF on is Hardcore. It adds strategy and tactics that Ricochet removes. Done right it makes HC a better experience. 3 TKs and you are out. Increased Spawn In time after each TK, as a punishment discourages players from TKing... nobody wants to sit around.

                                                                     

                                                                    HC players have been made Greedier by the Ricochet system. They no longer have to Think or communicate. I have seen so many players just running around cluelessly in HC, putting themselves and their teammates at risk. Why? Because there is no penalty to them. Their teammates pay the price. In Core, you can be careless and shoot through teammates. HC adds the element of putting your teammates' lives in your hands as well as having the awareness to protect your own.

                                                                     

                                                                    Honestly, Ricochet was the product of unaware players being upset at getting TK'd and whinging about it. They didn't want to take any responsibility for their actions or have to be aware of their surroundings, and sadly IW caved and we've been stuck with it since. It's great that SledgeHammer recognizes what made Hard Core great in this series and has finally listened to the dedicated HC players and gone back to it's roots.

                                                                     

                                                                    I have adapted to Ricochet. I do fine with it and I rarely have any issues... but then I credit that to having had FF on in earlier titles where I learned that discipline.

                                                                     

                                                                    I am so glad it is back, and I am sure other HC players are as well.

                                                                    Is it confirmed its back?

                                                                     

                                                                    I believe in everything you just said and in an idea world I would accepted exactly what you've said. However I too have played every CoD on HC and I still believe in what I said, the damage is done and the newer HC players only know a game with Ricochet, so when Black Ops 2 came around they only knew they could punish themselves and thus it lead to having KS dropped on me because I was near two enemies or grenades go through windows because they 'hear' someone and think 'oh must be an enemy''

                                                                     

                                                                    Point is I don't think TK is fair and I shouldn't have my experience ruined by someone's accident. Ricochet offers the ability for someone to take responsibility for a mistake they have made. I personally don't want to kill anyone on my team and I am glad in few instances I have been done for friendly fire that I paid the price and not them.

                                                                     

                                                                    Its simple fair logic. You do something to harm me and you pay the price.

                                                                     

                                                                    I think its something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

                                                                      • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                                        nicedrewishfela

                                                                        Absolutely, glad we can discuss it like adults.

                                                                         

                                                                        I honestly am fine with either... but greatly prefer FF. I just think it steps the experience up a notch. There are always players that will try to ruin the experience for others, but I think there are more players out there who want to play the game how it was meant to be played.

                                                                          • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                                            scotland-rules

                                                                            nicedrewishfela wrote:

                                                                             

                                                                            Absolutely, glad we can discuss it like adults.

                                                                             

                                                                            I honestly am fine with either... but greatly prefer FF. I just think it steps the experience up a notch. There are always players that will try to ruin the experience for others, but I think there are more players out there who want to play the game how it was meant to be played.

                                                                             

                                                                            Team killing has been confirmed to return for Hardcore, I never knew about that (It was confirmed on the 20th via Condrey's twitter)

                                                                             

                                                                            It does add to the experience and for the most part I loved the fact I had to be careful and it made the game so much more team focused but after a few games that had Ricohet in it. MW2 (some game modes), MW3, it did hurt Hardcore because people were used to the protection it offered and when Black Ops 2 came around I often wouldn't go 3 games without being team killed.

                                                                             

                                                                            Personally I'd like an added stat to shame people with that counts the number of team kills performed.

                                                                              • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                                                nicedrewishfela

                                                                                I think that wouldn't be such a bad idea. Also would like to see HC Disabled temporarily for players with multiple kicks over a certain span of games.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Part of my hope is that some of the Looky Lous who have migrated to HC without really adapting their playstyle to HC disappear back to Core when they realize they can't be so careless anymore.

                                                              • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                                NoLifeKing32

                                                                Happy to see HC is being installed properly in AW, first good news I have seen. Now I just need to know what game modes are being included. I am only expecting four at this point, but what is included will decide whether or not I buy the game.

                                                                  • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                                    LifeSong1

                                                                    Great discussion everyone. I am glad FF is returning but I am curious how they are going to handle a few situations:

                                                                    1. What happens when a teammate walks in front of a sentry gun you put down or into a missile strike you called in? Does it could against me?
                                                                    2. What happens on the 3rd kill (or whatever it is set to)? Are they automatically kicked? Does the 3rd person get the option to forgive or boot them (halo concept)?
                                                                    3. Is the new optic using the same technology as was used for enemy name colors before? Will they still have issues with identifying that there is a person behind the window, fence,  Bush, etc?
                                                                    4. Will the mini map return to the pause menu again? This gave me more teammate awareness as I could see them on the map and knew that I had a teammate running up in front of me. I used this all the time to improve my awareness. Ghosts is the first one to remove it completely.
                                                                      • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                                        Bielsalmighty

                                                                        IMO if YOU are in control of the streak i.e the missile strike then hell yes it should count against you. Automated streaks, no. It was ludicrous how sentry gun and AGR TKs could get you booted in BO2.

                                                                          • Re: HC Team Killing
                                                                            nicedrewishfela

                                                                            I totally agree.

                                                                             

                                                                            Use controlled- should count against the user.

                                                                             

                                                                            AI controlled should NEVER count against you, as you have no control over it. See: Mortar Strikes on WarHawk or any other map in Ghosts. They don't let you pick where it goes, thus it just fires everywhere. Yet you STILL get punished if it kills a teammate.

                                                                             

                                                                            Now, if I had been given the choice of where to drop it, and I dropped it on my teammates? Then I absolutely deserve to be punished for it.